Club Navigo is a rip off

We were told by the reservation department at Island One that we could not book a vacation because club navigo has not paid for the membership renewal.

sandrah295 wrote:

We were told by the reservation department at Island One that we could not book a vacation because club navigo has not paid for the membership renewal.

Dear Sandra,

I am the Vice President of Club Navigo Operations and I would like to express my regret that you have been experiencing difficulties booking reservations. While I do not have the specifics of your account, I think I may understand the situation based on your complaint.

My guess is that you purchased a timeshare from the Grand Seas Resort in Daytona Beach, Florida, and with that purchase you received a membership in Club Navigo. Every year, you receive an invoice from your home resort, the Grand Seas Resort, for your annual maintenance, taxes and Club Navigo dues assessments. The Grand Seas Resort then remits the Club Navigo dues back to us and your membership is renewed. After the Grand Seas Resort filed bankruptcy in 2009, they have not remitted the Club Navigo dues that you paid to Club Navigo to renew your membership. The situation is a little like the stories you hear in the news where renters are paying their landlords but the landlord doesn't pay the mortgage so the renter is evicted. In this case, eviction is not the end result but your membership in Club Navigo is not renewed. This is a very unfortunate situation for owners.

On a positive note, there are a couple of things you can do. First, if you wish to return to your home resort, you can contact them directly and they should book a reservation for you. You own at the resort, after all, and you have paid your annual assessments, I assume. Therefore, you are entitled to a reservation at your resort. Second, if you wish to utilize your Club Navigo membership benefits (e.g., making a reservation at other Club Navigo resorts, using Interval International to make an exchange, etc.), we are working with individual members to make that happen. I would be happy to assist you if you would like to contact me directly.

Again, I regret that you have had an unfortunate experience recently but welcome the opportunity to help you make the most of your Club Navigo membership.

Best regards, Karen Kraftchick VP Club Navigo Operations

karen.kraftchick@clubnavigo.com

We, like many others, have been a victim of Island One Resorts (Isle of Bali II, Liki Tiki, or whatever they are known as today) fraud and are looking for solutions. We have not been able to use our deeded vacation week for the last 5 years because "nothing is available" in any week we choose; even the week that our deed shows we "own" (week 18). Any attorney or individuals with some success or pending lending action against this rip-off outfit please contact us. Especially if you have had success in lawsuits involving the violations in the collection practices of Resort Financial Specialists. O'Neal: topgun39@prodigy.net

fredo14 wrote:

We, like many others, have been a victim of Island One Resorts (Isle of Bali II, Liki Tiki, or whatever they are known as today) fraud and are looking for solutions. We have not been able to use our deeded vacation week for the last 5 years because "nothing is available" in any week we choose; even the week that our deed shows we "own" (week 18). Any attorney or individuals with some success or pending lending action against this rip-off outfit please contact us. Especially if you have had success in lawsuits involving the violations in the collection practices of Resort Financial Specialists. O'Neal: topgun39@prodigy.net

Dear Mr./Mrs. O'Neal, My name is Karen Kraftchick and I work for Island One Resorts Hospitality Group, the management company for Liki Tiki Village. I regret that you have had difficulties using your timeshare in the past five years. Without knowing the details of your account, it is impossible to give you specific advice. However, I can share with you that usage of your timeshare is always dependent upon the timely payment of your annual homeowner's maintenance fees and property taxes. If you are dealing with a collection agency, that indicates to me that perhaps your account is not current and, thus, you would be denied usage of your timeshare weeks.

However, we are mindful that many, many people in the country are suffering financial difficulties right now and bringing accounts current is not easy. Our primary goal is to get all of our members to remember why they purchased a timeshare in the beginning - usually to take great vacations every year in great accommodations around the world! IORHG works closely with the collection agencies to return "lost" usage weeks to owners as they become current on their annual assessments. So, even if someone "lost" their unit week from five years ago, as long as they are making good faith payments to work down their debt, we would attempt to make reservations for them.

While I am not trying to discourage you from pursing any legal action you feel is appropriate, I would encourage you to contact me privately to discuss the specifics of your situation to see if I can assist you in a mutually favorable solution.

Best regards,

Karen Kraftchick VP Club Navigo Operations & Product Development

karen.kraftchick@islandone.com

I am the current owner of two Club Navigo time shares, with a total of 10000 points anually. One of my time shares is home based at Grand Seas, which is not accepting any reservations due to issues between Island One / Club Navigo and the resort; leaving me in the middle. the other is home based at Liki Tiki. I tried to make a reservation to use up the last of my points for 2010, (2000 points) and was unhappy to find that I could not stay at the Grand Seas.

I was told by the reservation agent, that they did not know why Grand Seas was not accepting reservations, or when they would resume. When talking to the Grand Seas about what was going on, (I am also a direct owner at the Grand Seas.), they said they were still honoring the contracts that ended with a .4, but not those ending in a .1. It would seem to me that the information given by the Club Navigo agent was deceptive at best, and possibly just simply a lie. Surely your employees have and idea about what is going on between you and the Grand Seas. So what is the difference, and why is my contract a .1????

The Grand Seas contract was a conversion from a direct ownership at the resort, into the Club Navigo system. There was no mention of a lower class of contract or ownership when we converted. And if I can not use my home resort, I am losing a huge percentage of the value of my ownership. Not only will I lose if trading into II or RCI, if I have a reservation in Orlando or elsewhere, but as nice as Liki Tiki and other resorts are, they are not OCEAN FRONT on Daytona Beach.

What is going on, and again, what is the difference between these .1 and .4 contracts?

Please note that this is not a case of late payments, or payments not being forwarded to Club Navigo from the Grand Seas. I went through all that in January, and all by fees are paid in full on both memberships.

PS: Your comment to one owner that they owned at the Grand Seas, does that mean that the deeds are still good at the Grand Seas for stays, outside of the Club Navigo system? In other words, can I use my 2BR, Lock Out unit at the Grand Seas exactly the same as the other unit that is not in the Club Navigo system?

You have another possible solution to your problem which you should try.

Instead of trying to book directly at the Club Navigo in Hawaii, which in not even ocean front, you should instead use your points to book rooms at other Navigo resorts, such at The Cove, which is ocean front in Ormond Beach, Florida. You can use your points to book as good a room as you can get, or even multiple rooms if you have enough points; and then bank those with Interval International. You then can book your stay through II to enjoy your vacation.

You have a free membership in II that comes with your paid Club Navigo dues. But you have to call the customer service line to get the account number for registering at Interval.

If your contract end in a .4, you could also book your points at Grand Seas, which is ocean front Daytona Beach. This trades into Interval at a pretty good exchange level.

Good Luck.

Dear Club Navigo Member,

I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing difficulties in using your Club Navigo Membership to make reservations.

I would like to begin by re-iterating that I cannot address specific issues in this forum because I don’t have all the details regarding your account. I would welcome private messages or emails from any Club Navigo member who would like to discuss the details of their particular situation. I can attempt, however, to answer some of your more general questions.

(1) Club Navigo Members wishing to travel to the Grand Seas Resort are not prohibited from doing so; however, there is limited availability to members who do not own a deeded week at that resort. (2) I do not know the difference between a .1 and a .4 contract. I have never heard that reference before. I do know that Club Navigo account numbers generally end in .1 and occasionally .2. I would be making an assumption that the Grand Seas Resort also uses a numbering system to identify their non-Club Navigo owners. Perhaps their system has account numbers ending in .4. Again, I do not know the answer to this question. (3) It is my understanding that the Grand Seas Resort is accepting reservations for all their deeded week owners, including Club Navigo members, provided the owner’s account is current. You would need to contact the Grand Seas Resort directly for additional information. (4) Club Navigo has other ocean front resorts. The Cove On Ormond Beach (5 min north of Daytona Beach, FL), Crescent Resort On South Beach (Miami, FL) and Chenay Bay Beach Resort (St. Croix, USVI) are all ocean front resorts. Charter Club Resort Of Naples Bay (Naples, FL) is located directly on Naples Bay (Gulf of Mexico side of Florida). We welcome all active Club Navigo Members to visit other resorts within the Club Navigo network of resorts, with no additional exchange fees. (5) All active Club Navigo memberships have a membership in an external exchange company, i.e., Interval International, RCI Weeks, or RCI Points, depending upon your deeded unit week. You can use your Club Navigo points to make a deposit with your external exchange company and then request a reservation at any of their resorts worldwide. A Club Navigo Vacation Specialist can help any Club Navigo member with these reservations and deposits.

I hope I was able to answer some of your generic questions. Again, I welcome the opportunity to answer specific issues regarding your account. Simply contact me directly.

Best regards, Karen Kraftchick VP Club Navigo Operations & Product Development karen.kraftchick@islandone.com

During Bike Week in Daytona we discussed Cliub Navigo with a sales rep at the Bruce Rossmeyers. She set us up with an appt in the office across from the Grand Seas- sales agent named Marty- we thought we were prepared with all the important questions- didn't want to buy a specific week- he told us it was points which could be used any time. As we came to Bike Week every year, and stayed at a place in Daytona, we figured this would be a good deal. We could stay at Club Navigo- he even came out to look at our bike and discussed the storage of our trailer, etc. We did not finance it and as we were on the bike asked that all paperwork be sent to our home- He knew we would not be home for two weeks. Of course, when we got home and read the "fine print" the time period to rescind was over. We still believed that we would be able to use it for bike week or somewhere else if that didn't work out- we have three daughters and thought they couod use it. NOT SO!! Not once have we been ablre to book anything- Bike week is a "special event" and there is never availability- although you can rent on the internet- for a price. When asked about this, we were told that's the way it is- only so many rooms are set aside for owners- the rest are rented out. We were also told about the "travel deals"- In fact, Marty told us that he and his family ONLY travelled using these deals! Again- NOT! Unfortunately these scumbags get away with this- I have called, written, received no deed- even tho I have requested it multiple times- in wtriting and on the phone- The biggest waste of money that I have ever spent---- I am for a class action but Florida allows this-

When you own a points base program or a floating week, you MUST reserve your week at least a year in advance .... with Bike Week, I would think you'd have to reserve a week more than a year in advance.

jayjay wrote:

When you own a points base program or a floating week, you MUST reserve your week at least a year in advance .... with Bike Week, I would think you'd have to reserve a week more than a year in advance.

That is a nice thought, but in the Club Navigo system, you can not book a stay more than a year in advance. The rules do not allow this. What you may be able to do however is to book a room for exchange in Interval Internationals system. You got a free membership in II when you joined Club Navigo. (Call CN customer service to find out the membership number you need to register with II.) Make your reservation with Club Navigo, telling them you are banking the reservation for exchange with II. Then go to II and log in. Look for the link for banked reservations, and enter the reservation number you were given by CN. Your week will be taken into the II system, and you then will be given choices for possible stays that exchange evenly with your unit. You may be able to get a unit at a resort on Daytona 500 week that way.

You should have received a copy of the deed when you closed on the purchase. I have four time shares through Club Navigo, and have received deeds for all 4, two at the time I purchased at the resorts, and two via mail when we closed remotely.

You should be able to find out what your deed room is, by registering your contract with the Club Navigo web site. www.clubnavigo.com. Click on the Owners tab and look for the link to register a contract. Your contract will be a number that starts with GSR and ends with a decimal like .1. Once you register your contract, you will see the room number and week from your deed on the web site when you log in.

IF, and that is a big if, your week is the Daytona week, then you can book that exact room directly through the Grand Seas, as you are a deeded owner. Event weeks, such as Daytona 500 week, and Bike week, are rarely ever going to be available in the Club Navigo system, as those week are permanently deeded to a specific room at the Grand Seas, and not part of the float system there.

One indication of the 'quality' of the week your unit is deeded in, would be the number of points assigned to your contract. If you have a two bedroom, you should have received 5000 points if your week is a Diamond season week. But if they gave you a contract in low season, you may have only received 2000 points for the room.

You sound like a Club Navigo employee. Just sayin'. Since you sound like such a happy Club Navigo customer, if you want another time share with them I have one that I would give you for free!!!! Just reply here so that we can get in contact. I will be more than happy to give it to you or anyone :)

dorisar wrote:

You sound like a Club Navigo employee. Just sayin'. Since you sound like such a happy Club Navigo customer, if you want another time share with them I have one that I would give you for free!!!! Just reply here so that we can get in contact. I will be more than happy to give it to you or anyone :)

No I am not an employee of Club Navigo, and I have had troble at times with them, but never anything that I was unable to work out.

I currently own multiple weeks through Club Navigo. 2- 2br weeks deeded at the Grand Seas, a 2Br week and a 3 br week deeded at Liki Tiki and I also own a 2Br week at Grand Seas that is not in the Club Navigo system.

While I at times have had to be the squeeky wheel to get the results I wanted, I have always ended up with a week at a good resort. There have been issues with proper and timely crediting of fees and dues payments, but these have always been worked out rather quickly when I raised enough cain.

As I write this, I have 3 reservations made, which are all confirmed for the weeks and locations I wanted; and one reservation for a week that I had to book at an alternate resort, due to lack of rooms the week I wanted. You do have to be a little flexible, as there are hundreds of owners that all are trying to book their weeks, and the more popular weeks are far harder to book than the less popular.

As for your offer to sell or give your week away; i would be willing to entertain an offer, but would need to have the deatails of what you own, as well as the status of the mortgage and all fees. Some deeds cost more to bring up to date than the week is worth.

PLEASE - I DO NOT NEED CONTACTS FROM TIME SHARE BROKERS AND THE LIKE. IF YOU ARE NOT A DEEDED OWNER, I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

I think the biggest issue that most people have with Club Navigo is the sales force they hired to sell the weeks. They were allowed to lie and misrepresent the true nature of the system, and this then led people to make bad investments. A prime example is thinking you could use your points to book a room on Bike Week or Daytona 500 week. Possible, but very unlikely. These are ultra high demand weeks, and are very hard to get ahold of. You have to be flexible and plan well in advance to make sure you have the reservations you want. And anyone considering buying into Club Navigo, take the time to read the papers before you sign them, or at least within 24 hours. If what you were promised by the salesman is not in writing, or has extra conditions attached you were not informed about, then either don't sign, or excercise your right to void the contract. If it is not in writing, then it does not exist. A promise is a lie until it is documented on paper.

I am an owner with Isle of Bali (if that is even the name today) in Orlando. Can't say I have had a problem getting the weeks that I want when I want to go to Orlando. Been an owner for 10 years. Ready to move on though and would not spend the kind of money to buy again.

posted Jan 26 2011

WOW, there are a LOT of angry owners.

One of the things on Timeshare Insights' list of things to do in 2011 is start, maintain and share a database of resorts' HOA meeting locations/times/places in an effort to get more people aware of and attend these important meetings.

Owners MUST speak up and MUST speak up in numbers. If you have information about your resort's HOA meeting and would like to share it, please e-mail it to me. Your name will NOT be mentioned, just the HOA meeting information.

lisa@timeshareinsights.com

I have been a Club Navigo member and owner at Charter Club Resort in Naples, FL for five years. I am quite happy with my membership experiences in Club Navigo. I have been able to successfully trade my week at Charter Club each year either for another Club Navigo property or through Interval International for other resorts around the US.

I have spoken with other owners who have been less satisfied over the years and I have found two things in common with the people who are unsatisfied: 1. they don't fully appreciate how timeshare systems work and how to make best use of the trading opportunities, and 2. they appear to prefer to believe they've been ripped off than to make an effort to educate themselves on how timeshares work.

Here are a few tips: Trade early - don't wait until three months before you want to travel. Start working on trades at least six months before your planned travel. Be flexible with dates and locations - the broader you cast your net the more likely you will obtain a place for vacation.

The first two years we owned at Carter Club we traded our week to stay at other Navigo properties: one winter in South Beach and another winter in Ormond Beach. The last three years we have traded through Interval international to use summer weeks in Cape Cod, MA and coastal Maine.

I have to agree. I have used my time share 1 in 5 years. I get the run around every year. In addition, I was manipulated in many things the sales person told me. It was the Daytona resort. I was originally excited, but year after year and the amount dumped in it is truly a shame. Like I said we were lied too, it is critical you sign nothing and read the fine print. I wish I had a tape recorder because it would have been a nice lawsuit.

I've been ripped off too, in a similar way to the person who posted the initial post in this thread and from the same place (florida) though I don't remember the names of the people who sold us the timeshare.

We have had a lot of trouble booking accommodation. The only accommodation we managed to secure was when we booked some hotel for a couple of friends of ours in Mexico, though the points and prices are far different to what we were quoted by the sales agents. Plus we did not receive our free hawaii vacation, nor our free cruise as was promised when we signed up.

I also noticed that our maintenance fees and taxes are about $1200, which is a similar price to what it would cost us to book a weeks accommodation in the same building as our timeshare anyway without owning the timeshare! what was the $25k for then if we aren't saving anything? And why do we lose all our points if we don't use them in a year? I was told we could keep them indefinitely and they just rolled over. Now I find out I've been paying thousands in maintenance and taxes and in paying off the timeshare, and they didn't even roll over, so sheeze this has been a huge money drain for no benefit. Basically lost $25k, and I don't see the value in paying the $1200 a year in maintenance fees anyway for 1 week in accommodation that I can't get booked for when I want it anyway. There were so many lies told to us when we got sold the accommodation.

Island one / clubnavigo can try to make themselves look good by posting on this forum and hiding behind statements like 'Because we don't know your specific circumstances.. blah blah' but talking to them on the phone, they KNOW that their scheme is of no value to anyone and they know full well that they are scamming people. I was told that my 1 week in Florida would be worth 5 weeks in other locations like new zealand (where i live) and australia and that it would only cost me $156 to transfer my points. That's why I joined. That was a total lie, and now I'm stuck paying this rediculous bill every year that i can't get out of without it affecting my credit rating etc.

There is so much more to say, the amount of lies told to us was unbelievable.

There is no reason you should be losing your points each year, as your ownership came with a membership in Interval International, as well as the Club Navigo membership.

What you should do is this:

Call Club Navigo member services and get the numbers you will need to create your free account with Interval. Then if you can not get a reservation at the desired resort for the week you want, you can make a reservation for a different week, and bank that reservation with Interval International. Make sure you tell the person you talk to when making the reservation, that you intend to bank it with Interval. as they have to post it on a link site for it to be banked. There is a small fee to back, but it is not much. You then log onto Interval and select the option to bank a week. The will ask for your information as to the resort and reservation number you are banking, and will check this against the information of the exchange link. They will find your reservation and bank it into your Interval account. You now have up to two years to exchange the banked week for a week at any of the comparable resorts in the Interval system, anywhere in the world. Interval will list weeks that you can exchange into even, or is some cases, fancier units that you can exchange into for an upgrade fee.

You may also be able to get two or more weeks in exchange, depending on the week you bank.

In this way, you do have a little more trouble and leg work to do, but you will at least be able to use your ownership.

good luck.

markl460 wrote:

I've been ripped off too, in a similar way to the person who posted the initial post in this thread and from the same place (florida) though I don't remember the names of the people who sold us the timeshare.

We have had a lot of trouble booking accommodation. The only accommodation we managed to secure was when we booked some hotel for a couple of friends of ours in Mexico, though the points and prices are far different to what we were quoted by the sales agents. Plus we did not receive our free hawaii vacation, nor our free cruise as was promised when we signed up.

I also noticed that our maintenance fees and taxes are about $1200, which is a similar price to what it would cost us to book a weeks accommodation in the same building as our timeshare anyway without owning the timeshare! what was the $25k for then if we aren't saving anything? And why do we lose all our points if we don't use them in a year? I was told we could keep them indefinitely and they just rolled over. Now I find out I've been paying thousands in maintenance and taxes and in paying off the timeshare, and they didn't even roll over, so sheeze this has been a huge money drain for no benefit. Basically lost $25k, and I don't see the value in paying the $1200 a year in maintenance fees anyway for 1 week in accommodation that I can't get booked for when I want it anyway. There were so many lies told to us when we got sold the accommodation.

Island one / clubnavigo can try to make themselves look good by posting on this forum and hiding behind statements like 'Because we don't know your specific circumstances.. blah blah' but talking to them on the phone, they KNOW that their scheme is of no value to anyone and they know full well that they are scamming people. I was told that my 1 week in Florida would be worth 5 weeks in other locations like new zealand (where i live) and australia and that it would only cost me $156 to transfer my points. That's why I joined. That was a total lie, and now I'm stuck paying this rediculous bill every year that i can't get out of without it affecting my credit rating etc.

There is so much more to say, the amount of lies told to us was unbelievable.

You posting leaves me wondering just how hard you have tried to make a reservation. You say you are paying 1200, and I take it you are at Liki Tiki, that would mean you have a 3Br unit, and should have 8000 points or less each year. And you say you can not get a reservation, and could rent the unit for the same price.

Well you can rent the units for about the same price as the fee, but only if you travel in low season. And only if you just let your extra points, not used in low season to make a reservation, just die, instead of banking them into next year. If you are going in high season, when you would use all 8000 points, you will pay upwards of 1600 for a 3Br, and then pay 13% tax on top of that, so you are hardly paying the same as your fees for that room.

If you are having trouble making a reservation, then I have to wonder if you are paying your fees in a timely manor? Are you current in your mortgage? If you wait until a month before you are traveling to make a reservation, and are going in a high (popular) season; why are you surprised that there are no openings left. You snooze, you looze.

Make your fee payment early, and you can get first crack at reservations. If you pay late, you are very unlikely to be able to reserve a high demand week.

I personally have 26000 points to use each year, from 4 ownerships (2 x 2Br and 2 x 3Br). That is over 3 times as many points as you have to use. I have always been able to make reservations. Some times it is a week earlier or later than I originally wanted. Some times I had to go to a neighboring resort, or over to the Ormond Beach area. But I always get my reservations. But I pay early, and make reservations as soon as the checks clear.

Bottom line people - find out all the tricks to maximize your usage, and USE them. Pay early. Plan far in advance. Bank unused points into the next year. Bank into Interval or RCI if needed, and go to another resort in those systems. You can always find a way to use your ownership, if you put in the effort.

Just a quick note about my experiences with Club Navigo. I have posted replies to several postings, and have on occasion been accused of being a plant for Club Navigo. Well I certainly am not that. I own 4 Navigo weeks, deeded as 2Br at Grand Seas, and as a 2Br and two 3Br's at Liki Tiki. This gives me 26,000 points each year of usage. So if anyone should be having trouble using up their points, it should be me. Yet I have always been able to work out favorable reservations, and have never lost any points. And I seldom use up all my points at once by booking high season rooms. I usually travel in mid or low season, and get more than one week out of each unit.

You have to pay your fees early or on time at the latest. Make your reservations EARLY, as soon as your fees are paid. If you have trouble getting the week you want, consider banking a different week or weeks into Interval International or RCI exchange systems, and select from their vast inventory or time share units. If all else fails, bank into next year or make a reservation and sell the use on eBay.

Having said that, Club Navigo has over the years used outside sales companies to represent them, for sure at The Grand Seas in Daytona, and certainly at other sites over the years. These companies have at time used less than honest techniques to basically sucker people into buying something that was not as they portrayed it. This is unfortunate, but that damage has been done. In the end, it is buyer beware, and every contract clearly states that if if was not written down in the contract, it was not guaranteed. But that does not mean you can not make lemonade out of the lemon. I know of several owners who can not get the week they want at the resort they want through the Navigo reservations system. So they bank one or more weeks, whatever they can get for reservations, into the Interval system. Remember that your Club Navigo membership includes a membership in either Interval International or RCI. Call Club Navigo Member Services to get the account number for your membership in the outside exchange club. They then pick a resort stay from Interval or RCI , and have a great time. Do a little homework, and you can turn your time share into an asset, rather than a pain.

Good Luck to all.