Club Navigo is a rip off

Hello Good People,

I too have been taken for the Club Navigo Scam. I could go on to share how so, but I'd prefer to get directly into action.

Fortunately, I work at a local Central Florida based television station( I intentionally left the channel out). However, our station is one of the "Big 3". I have shared my disgust about being slighted & not being able to get my money back from Club Navigo with our Consumer Reports Reporter. Thankfully, he has offerred to take on the story on my behalf.

However, he needs to hear there is still a demand for such a story. This is where I need all of the supposed owner's of Club Navigo properties to reply to my email at(4quadx@gmail.com). You do not have to share your name or any important info at this time. Just a one liner stating you are a vicitim &/or would find the story interesting or informational.

If there is a need for anything else I will reply back to your email.

Thanks.

Hi brockp6,

I am curious how you think you were scammed by Club Navigo. How were you slighted? And why did you think you should get money back? Did you make a purchase and then change your mind?

I summarized my story in February in my message in this discussion thread titled "Club Navigo is NOT a rip off - some members just don't understand how to trade".

In my message I offered the following two tips on effective trading:

1. Trade early - don't wait until three months before you want to travel. Start working on trades at least six months before your planned travel. 2. Be flexible with dates and locations - the broader you cast your net the more likely you will obtain a place for vacation.

We submit our trade requests each year in October/November for the next summer/fall. We've been successful every year.

About selling - yeah, timeshares are tough to sell. We'd like to sell ours now, not because we're dissatisfied but because we are having trouble consuming the three weeks that we own along with the bonus weeks that we earn through Interval. So we'd like to sell one of our weeks. But I don't blame the slowness of the resale market on Navigo.

I have to agree with the last post in reply to your complaint.

I have 5 time shares with Club Navigo. I have been able to get reservations for acceptable dates at good resorts every year.

I have even been able to rent or give weeks to friends and families.

But as the other reply implied - you can not be lazy about going after a reservation. I make most of my reservations 4 to 8 months in advance.

Most people who think CN is a rip-off, fall into one of three categories. 1) Pay fees late and expect to get last minute reservations anyway.

2) Have no flexibility in locations, room type or week.

3) Have buyers remorse because they wanted to buy a hotel room, and bought a condo instead.

If I can find reservations for 26,000 Navigo points each year, then you can find a reservation for whatever amount of points you have. But you do have to put a little effort into planning and booking your vacation.

Steve

Good Day,

To all of you non Club Navigo employees/affiliates that have replied to my email address and not this string of contaminated replies, Thank You. It is obvious this blog has been become a popular resource for Club Navigo emps/affiliates to disrupt and attempt to stop the bleeding so their unexpecting prospects will be mislead.

Eventough, I will continue to check this blog please remember to keep communicating via 4quadx@gmail.com. Also, after reading some of the stories you've shared, I truly understand your frustration!

** IF YOU ARE NEW TO THIS BLOG**

PLEASE CHECK MY MESSAGE ON JUNE 6, 2011 @ 2:57PM & REPLY IF YOU AGREE VIA 4quadx@gmail.com.

Accusing others of being employees of Navigo, and dismissing their comments as you do shows that there is no truth or interest in the truth from you.

You have obviously made up your mind that whatever imagined or real slight you feel you have received as the result of your apparently uninformed forte into time share ownership, could not possible have been your fault. You lambast the club, without giving any real details. Only a lot of accusations without proof, and innuendo against anyone who would dare to challenge your baseless story.

As I said in my original posts, I have never been unable to use my time share points, and have so far this year booked 9 weeks in various rooms at Liki Tiki, Grand Seas and The Cove. Using a total of 14,800 points to date. If you can't get your reservations, then I say it is your fault. You are either not paying your fees when due, or are waiting till the last minute to try to make reservations at popular resorts in busy seasons.

Just because you were stupid in making your purchase, and had no idea of what it was you were buying, does not mean you were ripped off. May, just maybe, the problem is your to stupid to use your time share.

As Mr./Mrs. "Lambast"(lol- who really uses that??) has made it clear, he is obviously someone that has a lot inve$ted in making sure Club Navigo seen in an undeserving positive light.

Ask yourselves this: Who spends their day on a blog, so avidly defending a company they've dealt with? Shouldn't he be somewhere enjoying on vacation??

Let me guess, here comes another quality control anonymous message from a "happy owner".

Frankly Brock, it is your messages that lack credibility. My first questions to you were to ask how you were scammed by Club Navigo. How were you slighted? And why did you think you should get money back?

Until you answer those questions with specifics, you're not doing anyone any favors here. Particularly not yourself.

I don't know stevem532 anymore than I know you. But based on my own experiences, the details that Steve shares are more credible than anything you've written. Oh, that's right - you haven't written any details - just innuendo.

This year we traded our Club Navigo points for a one week stay at Southcape Resort & Club during the height of the summer season. Last year we traded for a week at the beach in Ogunquit, Maine. The year before that we stayed at Ormond Beach, the year before that it was South Beach.

I can go on, but I think I made my point. Our family has experienced successful vacation week trades using our Club Navigo ownership every year that we have owned.

As I pointed out twice before on this forum, the way to success in Time Share ownership is to take an interest in the value of your asset, and...

1. Trade early - don't wait until three months before you want to travel. Start working on trades at least six months before your planned travel. 2. Be flexible with dates and locations - the broader you cast your net the more likely you will obtain a place for vacation.

You wrote: "REPLY IF YOU AGREE..." It seems odd that you invite people to reply only if they agree with you. Are you not seeking the truth? Do you and your friend at the "Big 3" Central Florida television station plan to present a biased report? Are you out to smear Club Navigo for some personal reasons? Are you really going to ignore the success stories of owners who have worked to create value for our families through time share ownership?

lam·baste (lm-bst) tr.v. lam·bast·ed, lam·bast·ing, lam·bastes Informal 1. To give a thrashing to; beat. See Synonyms at beat. 2. To scold sharply; berate.

First of all - Well said Johnt738 in the last post.

Second - I use lambaste - your verbal trashing of Club Navigo is a perfect example of it. Get a dictionary.

So far you have failed in any of your post to give one single shred of evidence as to the slight, wrong, cheat, rip-off that you CLAIM to have suffered at the hands of Club Navigo. Why no specifics? Maybe because they do not exist? And people are to believe you, just because you say so? REALLY?

On the other hand, both johnt738 and I have given you both good examples of how the time share system can work for you, as well and a few comments on things to watch out for. You simply have to be smart enough to follow a few simple steps to have a successful time share experience.

>he is obviously someone that has a lot inve$ted in making sure Club >Navigo seen in an undeserving positive light.

Yes I have money invested in Club Navigo - as do you - or so you claim. And I just want to have it seen in the light of day, rather than seen through your distorted view of the world. Again I challenge you - What did they do that makes you say you were slighted. Can you show any proof that you are not some stupid ass who though he could call on Wednesday for a stay the following week at a popular resort?

And why would I bother to reply to someone who is as big a waste of air as you are proving yourself to be - Your derisive comments can devalue the investment I have in Club Navigo, by reducing the trade value of my reservations when trying to exchange through Interval International. You therefore are damaging all the owners of Club Navigo to wage some vendetta against the company. Are you working for another time share company that wants to see Club Navigo fail perhaps?

>Ask yourselves this: Who spends their day on a blog, so avidly defending >a company they've dealt with? Shouldn't he be somewhere enjoying on >vacation??

I am just back from a week at the Cove, 2Br ocean front - and have already spent three other weeks at the Cove, and Liki Tiki this year. Still have another week I will take later this year. Another six reservations have either already been used by friends or family, or will be used in the next two weeks. You see - I, unlike you brockp6, plan in advance and have no trouble getting my vacations.

As for time spent defending the Club Navigo system. I, just like you, get an email with a link to the latest rant from you, or reply from some other owner you then berate. I log on, read your latest rubbish, and then type a reply. Takes very little time. And I do it because I do not like to see liars get away with berating what I think is a reputable company. Until you offer any details as to why you are posting, as requested by more than one person, then I say you are a liar.

As for the "another quality control anonymous message from a "happy owner" remark - really? And you are up front with who you are? A g-mail account - first choice of people trying to create a fake identity. Just how out in the open are you?

As it now even moreso obvious their "Quality Control Representation" is working full-time. Thanks to all for the heads up about this blog cycle.

Good Day,

To all of you non Club Navigo employees/affiliates that have replied to my email address and not this string of contaminated replies, Thank You. It is obvious this blog has been become a popular resource for Club Navigo emps/affiliates to disrupt and attempt to stop the bleeding so their unexpecting prospects will be mislead.

Eventough, I will continue to check this blog please remember to keep communicating via 4quadx@gmail.com. Also, after reading some of the stories you've shared, I truly understand your frustration!

** IF YOU ARE NEW TO THIS BLOG**

PLEASE CHECK MY MESSAGE ON JUNE 6, 2011 @ 2:57PM & REPLY IF YOU AGREE VIA 4quadx@gmail.com.

brockp6 continues to demonstrate a lack of credibility by refusing to acknowledge my requests for details about how he believes he was scammed by Club Navigo. As an owner at Charter Club Resort in Naples, I view his behavior on this forum as irresponsible and destructive toward the value of my ownership. I would caution anyone here who is considering writing to him to think carefully about whether you want to reveal your identity to this person.

The only Navigo employee who I have seen post in this discussion thread is Karen Kraftchick. Karen identified herself as VP of Club Navigo Operations and provided some helpful advice to others here last year. She even offered personal assistance to anyone here having any difficulty with their Club Navigo ownership. I think Karen's last message was posted on Oct 08, 2010. She included her email address in every message that I read from her. It is karen.kraftchick@clubnavigo.com

I wrote to Karen and thanked her for her offer of assistance. As a Club Navigo time share unit owner, I had some questions and was looking for advice. Karen was very responsive and helpful. I kept her contact details and I plan to get in touch with her again if I need any help with my ownership. She is certainly far more credible than this annoying brockp6.

While brockp6 refuses to provide details about his claims of being scammed, I will provide details about my experiences...

I have posted here about how satisfied our family has been with our Charter Club, Naples ownership. I'll tell you about another of our experiences with Club Navigo. A couple of winters ago we traded our week at Charter Club for a week at the Crescent Resort on South Beach. At the time I didn't think about how so many South Beach properties are dominated by college students on spring break - at least not until the first night we tried to sleep at the Crescent Resort.

Needless to say, we had a horrible week with all-night partiers upstairs over our heads keeping us awake every night. At the end of the week I went to the hotel manager's office and sat down with him and explained what a horrible week it had been, both because of the nighttime disturbances and a few other issues. His immediate response was to apologize and to return all of the points we had spent on that week back to our account! I was amazed. I never expected to be treated so well by a time-share company.

HERE'S A CHALLENGE TO BROCKP6 - How about including my family's story in your documentary? If you're really sincere about producing a truthful documentary, post the name and phone number of the Consumer Reports Reporter at your "Big 3" Central Florida television station. I will call the reporter and if I find that you have truthfully given me the name of a legitimate reporter at a Central Florida television station, I will reveal my identity to that person, prove my ownership at Charter Club Resort in Naples, and give him my story.

brockp6 - are you ready to tell the whole truth about Club Navigo? Or do you intend to hide the truth about the good experiences that owners like me have had? Put up now or shut up. I'm tired of you casting disparaging remarks against the company where I have made an investment for my family's future vacations. Your credibility is on the line now brockp6. You can either accept my challenge or demonstrate to everyone here that the real scam is what you are doing.

John

Bravo johnt738.

I will put up the same challenge to brockp6.

I own weeks at Grand Seas and The Cove. When this thread was started, I also owned three weeks at Liki Tiki and another week at Grand Seas, but have since traded in those four weeks for Daytona 500 week at The Cove.

While my ownership has decreased from 26,000 points yearly and 31,000 points on ODD years, to only 8,600 points yearly; it does not change the good experience I have had as a Club Navigo owner. As I have stated in prior postings, I have been able to use all my points every year. I have never had any real trouble with making reservations that were satisfactory to my needs, with the exception of one year where a computer glitch cancelled all by reservations, and I had rebook. But I still got all by usage on weeks I found acceptable.

brockp6 has repeatedly stated that he was ripped off by Club Navigo, but has never given the least bit of details as to in what way this happened. He looks to only be interested in negative reports that would fuel his obsession with smearing the company, and berates anyone who would disagree with him.

In looking through the thread, is there anyone other than brockp6 who is making the same claims?

So I to challenge you to give me the name of your so called reporter. I will also check into this and see if this person is real, or a figment of your imagination. And just like johnt738, I will contact this reporter and offer my view of the club.

So what do you say brockp6. Are you man enough to take up the challenge? Post the name of the reporter you claim you know.

Or are you, as I suspect, one of those dead beat owners who don't pay their mortgage on time, don't pay their fees until they are ready to make reservations, don't call to get a reservation until a week or two before you want the room, or think that a condo should have daily maid service. Or maybe your simple a shill for another time share company that is trying to damage Club Navigo. Or an employee of Club Navigo who was fired for bad performance, or bad attitude.

In any case, your actions have the potential of damaging the considerable investment I and others have made in Club Navigo. And I for one think it is time for you to offer some proof that anything you allege is true, before you make any more false and misleading accusations.

Steve

I too have been a victim of these scams and would love to see this story pursued. Thanks

stacyb140 wrote:

I too have been a victim of these scams and would love to see this story pursued. Thanks

Stacyb140.

Please give some details of what it is you purchased, and what problems you have been having in trying to use your week(s).

Most of this thread has been taken up by one person making accusations of being ripped off, but he has never offered a single word about what exactly happened with him.

Again, please give a little detail about your experience. Most of the time, it is just a misunderstanding, or lack of knowledge of the tricks to optimize your use, which stand between you and a great vacation experience.

If you would: -What resort did you buy into. -What type of unit did you purchase. 1Br, 2Br, Lock-out unit, Annual usage or Bi-annual, Points or Fixed week? -Is the mortgage paid in full, or is it current and being paid on time? -Have you paid all your M&T fees (maintenance and tax)? -Have you paid any special assessments (not common)? -How long in advance have you tried to make reservations, which you could not get? A month, 3 months, 6 months? -Were you flexible, or did you request only one exact week and unit in a popular time of year? -Were you given any reason why reservations were not available?

I and others on here would be more than willing to give you the benefit of any advise we could offer, which might resolve the issues you have had and turn what is now a bad deal, into the one you thought you were getting.

Please if you are going to claim that Club Navigo is a rip off, give some reason why you are saying that.

For these type of forums to be of any real use, you need to explain why you believe you did not get what you paid for when you made your purchase. What have you done to try to resolve the issues you have been having?

There are some people who were genuinely ripped off by some of the sales personnel that Club Navigo has used over the years. One person I co responded with made the mistake of converting his Race Week unit at The Grand Seas into a points only deed. This lost him the ability to use his week without going through the reservations system, which will never have race week available. But most of those who claim to have been ripped off or cheated are simply trying to blame others for their own failings. On three occasions, people claiming to have been cheated were behind on their mortgage, or had not paid the M&T fees, and then whined that they could not get a reservations. NEWS FLASH - You can't get a plane ticket without paying, You can't rent a car without paying. You can't make a reservations - unless you have paid.

So if you think you have been ripped off, by all means please speak up. But please, tell the story. Don't simply throw out the statement with no explanation why you feel the way you do.

Well I guess that about settles it. My challenge has been here for a week and brockp6 has taken my advice and shut up. Now we all know who's been running the real scam.

Steve, what's your bet that brockp6 logged in with another account name of "stacyb140" in a feeble attempt to bring legitimacy to his scam?

Well John, there would seem to be a pretty good bet that they are one in the same. Both making the same unsupported claims, and neither willing to give any details to back up that claim.

Unfortunately, I have seen many of this type of complaint on these and other forums. About six months ago, I ran across a person who claimed he was ripped off. Instead of ignoring my request for details, he made them up. But he didn't bother doing even the slightest bit of research. Claimed he had a 2 Br lock-out at Grand Seas and a 3Br lock-out at Liki Tiki. When I asked for the room numbers from the deeds and the amount of points, his answers were obviously bogus to anyone who actually owned such units - like me.

He said the room at the Grand Seas was 8002 and that it was a 6000 point unit. Problem being - there is no 8th floor at the Grand Seas, and no unit is deeded for more than 5000 points.

The there was the 3Br at Liki Tiki. Said he owned unit 700 and it was a 10,000 point unit. Again, bogus, the unit number would have to be 701, 702 etc. and would also include 2 letters if it was a three bedroom lock out. And, there would not be any unit that had 10,000 points as the largest unit in high season is 8,000 points.

I know because I own/owned 2 of those 3Br units at Liki Tiki, a 2Br lock-out at Liki Tiki and 2 2Br lock-out units at Grand Seas. I also own a 1Br event week at The Cove South. So let's just say I know the system, and can spot a fake.

One other scam I came across was on Trip TripAdvisor. A review claimed that the place was a dump, with no help on the grounds and no security. Claimed that gangs ran wild inside the grounds and had ransacked dozens of units and guests cars while he was there. Problem being, I was there with my family the same week he claims to have been there. Grounds were if great shape and staff was to be seen everywhere. The security was almost to strict the first couple of days, until the guard began to recognize the vehicle and my face. And there certainly were no gangs running around. I simply do not understand why people do this type of thing, unless these are former employees, who were fired. I have been given to understand that a large number of people were let go because they were using unethical tactics to sell time shares. Who Knows.

All I know is that I agree with John completely - if you do a little planning, and understand what a time share is and can be - you can have a great vacation and get tremendous value out of your ownership.

The proof - I used the 8000 points from just one of my Liki Tiki 3Br units to book 3 separate stays for friends and family at the Cove in 2Br South Tower units, and another in a Studio in the North Tower. They all were traveling in the low season, so I got great value for the points. 4 stays instead of just one.

My beef, is that I own that the Grand Seas in Daytona. They only sold a limited amount of Club Navigo time Shares there…. Let me tell you, Grand Seas will not pay the Club Navigo Fees. So I had to wait one year to get a week deposited with II. Now I pay Club Navigo directly for the club fees, BUT I am being charged late fees by the Grand Seas and still I have NO week of time share! So whether they get you up front or on the back end neither of these companies are upright. It took a complaint from me to the BBB of Florida to get a mere $139 payment made that was held hostage. Let me tell you there were many unreturned phone calls and emails. I do own a timeshare with Sheridan (Starwood) and it is a joy to work with these companies. They go out of their way to help! Now I am being held hostage AGAIN by Grand Seas and Club Navigo over $45 late fees of which neither will help me resolve. Sure sucks to take a vacation sometimes.

Thanks for all of your work on this topic! These guys give Timeshares a bad name….

** IF YOU ARE NEW TO THIS BLOG**

As it now even moreso obvious their "Quality Control Representation" is working full-time. Thanks to all for the heads up about this blog cycle.

Good Day,

To all of you non Club Navigo employees/affiliates that have replied to my email address and not this string of contaminated replies, Thank You & (YOU'RE WELCOME). It is obvious this blog has been become a popular resource for Club Navigo emps/affiliates to disrupt and attempt to stop the bleeding so their unexpecting prospects will be mislead.

Eventough, I will continue to check this blog please remember to keep communicating via 4quadx@gmail.com. Also, after reading some of the stories you've shared, I truly understand your frustration!

** IF YOU ARE NEW TO THIS BLOG**

PLEASE CHECK MY MESSAGE ON JUNE 6, 2011 @ 2:57PM & REPLY IF YOU AGREE VIA 4quadx@gmail.com.

Hi Johnh134,

Well I understand your complaint about the dues, and them not paying Club Navigo and expecting you to pay the bill - the word I get is this has to do with thousands of dollars that Grand Seas claims Club Navigo still owes it from the association they had that went sour.

I no longer have the same problem as I have a second Navigo week, and pay the dues to the club through The Cove now.

Now, as to your week you own at Grand Seas. While the week will be hard to use through Club Navigo or Grand Seas as long as your have fees showing as due at either location - I have been able to use my 2 separate weeks each year anyway. What I have done is reverted to the original deeded week. Even if you have points through Navigo - there is still a deed behind that that gives you a week in a specific type of unit, and/or specific week. You can make reservations directly with Grand Seas, using the contract number from your deed, and thus get your vacation. If your original deed had float privileges, which all but the 8 event week units should have - then you can float into your type of unit for any week that is available - IF your fees are all paid. Meaning you would have to pay the $45 in late fees, to make a reservation. You should talk with the Owner Representative about splitting the two bills - paying Club Navigo directly, and Grand Seas directly, and not relying on one to pay the other - thus getting you into the middle of their spat.

As I said, I have two separate weeks deeded through Grand Seas, and while it is a bit more of a pain than it should be, I get my usage each year. I have also heard of cases where if you are a squeaky enough wheel, and pay all your fees to Club Navigo, they have restored the lost weeks of points for people. Call Club Navigo Customer Service and keep raising hell until you get someone high enoughs attention.

If you would like to discuss the steps I took to resolve the problems I was having, you can email me at stevetimeshare@yahoo.com. Let me know what your status is, and I would be happy to suggest how you might be able to get your time share working for you again. ( NOTE: I am not a broker or anything of the sort - just an owner of multiple Club Navigo time shares - who has yet to loose a single weeks usage. Currently own two CN weeks, but have owned as many as 6 at one time. )

Hi Johnh134,

If you look back through this discussion thread (before Brock started spamming it), you'll find some messages from Karen Kraftchick at Club Navigo. Karen identified herself as VP of Club Navigo Operations and gave her email account as karen.kraftchick@clubnavigo.com

Karen offered to help some other owners who were having troubles similar to yours. If she's still at Club Navigo I'm sure she'd be interested in helping you.

John