TimeshareMLS.org resale scam

I originally thought about crediting your site with the forum post I copied from it. I did instead decide to go with a "generic type credit" stating that I found the post on another forum for this reason:

Your forum section seems to be sincere with actual posts from actual victims, I never had any concerns about that. What I wasn't sure of is your service you offer scam victims. You do state you fight for them and go after a resale company and get the victims a refund--quite successfully you say. You charge a commission to the victims after a refund is received. You also indicate the advance fee resale victim has to pay a $100 retainer fee that's refundable should they receive no refund.

This is pretty much the same business model that the Advance Fee Timeshare Resellers use except now the people who may pay this are still both desperate and wanting revenge, 2 very motivating factors.

May I say, a Money Back Guarantee is only as good as the company that says it. It seems any unsuccessful refund case can be tagged with "ongoing" anyway.

I won't get into the logistics of your operation but I am having a hard time comprehending that you have a team of ex resale agents that infiltrate current scam operations to gather information thus helping you get the refunds for your clients.

Here's the tricky part, to afford these "investigators" they are paid by the resale companies for work they do while on a case, however, these resale companies pay on a commission basis, so your "investigators" are scamming people while on the job so that they get a weekly paycheck in order to allow them to get information/evidence that will help you get a refund for the initial client that paid the $100 retainer fee for your services. That alone doesn't seem right.

So you have so much case volume that once one investigation is finished you have another case opening up so each investigator can go from one case to another without disrupting their pay?

I've got other questions but this post is too long as it is.

Please feel free to reply and clarify if you can what you do and how you do it.

I will not answer your main question about how we do it. None of your business. Here is what I will tell you.

1.) You take something off of our forum you post credit as to where you originally saw it. Anything less is not right and in our opinion stealing.

2.) Correct. A money back guarantee is only as good as the company that says it. We only accept credit cards for one reason which is buyer protection. The reason is that when you check out it clearly states that if we are unsuccessful within 90 days you get your money back. If we fail to deliver a refund your credit card company would. Too many chargebacks or a pattern of chargebacks = a suspended account. Not to mention chargebacks cost more than it would cost to give a refund.

3.) You state that while on the job our activities don't seem right. They aren't. However we do it for the greater good of the consumer and the "stick it up your a**" of the companies behind these scams. I will not fully disclose a detailed answer here. I will give you this example:

Acme Resales is in possession of many leads that consist of people looking to sell their timeshare. Jane Doe works for Acme Resales and calls a lead that happens to be you. She gives you a pitch, you bite for $998, and you never hear from her again realizing after a year you got scammed. Jane took her $400 commission off of you and had a nice weekend smoking crack with your money. John Doe works for us and is on assignment at Acme Resales. Instead of Jane getting your lead John does. He calls you, gives you the same pitch Jane would have, and you bite for $998. John takes his $400 commission off of you and uses a portion of the money to fund these investigations and helps others who have been victimized. John calls you 45 days later and tells you who he really works for, what he did, and why he did it. He also educates you that any company requiring upfront fees is a scam so you never fall victim again. He gives you explicit instructions on how to get your money back which you follow to the T and get your money back. Acme Resales looses the $998 sale plus the $400 they paid in commission to John and can't collect from our rep being John no longer "works" there, plus a $50 chargeback fee, plus 3% for the original charge, plus another 3% for the charge being reversed totaling a loss to Acme Resales in the amount of $509.88 per customer. In 60 days John should get a minimum of 50 deals so you do the math and ask your self how far we shove it up their you know what dry with no lubrication.

Would you rather be called by John or Jane? Let's play devils advocate and say after following John's instructions you are unsuccessful (very unlikely). In that case we offer you our services for free, you get your money back, and never pay another upfront fee again. Let's assume worst case scenario and you can't get your money back from the company nor are we successful... You would have paid the same fee whether John or Jane called you. At least John gave you an education that saved you money in the long run as you will never fall for it again. Say what you want about once bitten twice shy. We know from experience that people fall for it multiple times. In my days as a timeshare resale agent I sold a guy who had paid 6 other companies.

At the end of the day we are doing far more good than the little bad. We all go to sleep at night just fine knowing that we are making a difference in peoples lives and giving back. It doesn't excuse us for what some of us did in the past but the past is the past and today is the first day of the rest of our lives. We aren't proud of how we use to make nice livings but I for one am proud of what I do now. Are we scam artists? Yes we are! We are some of the best scam artists out there only we don't scam innocent consumers. We scam the scammers who prey on the hard working and ever too trusting timeshare owners like yourself.

resaler wrote:

I will not answer your main question about how we do it. None of your business. Here is what I will tell you.

1.) You take something off of our forum you post credit as to where you originally saw it. Anything less is not right and in our opinion stealing.

2.) Correct. A money back guarantee is only as good as the company that says it. We only accept credit cards for one reason which is buyer protection. The reason is that when you check out it clearly states that if we are unsuccessful within 90 days you get your money back. If we fail to deliver a refund your credit card company would. Too many chargebacks or a pattern of chargebacks = a suspended account. Not to mention chargebacks cost more than it would cost to give a refund.

3.) You state that while on the job our activities don't seem right. They aren't. However we do it for the greater good of the consumer and the "stick it up your a**" of the companies behind these scams. I will not fully disclose a detailed answer here. I will give you this example:

Acme Resales is in possession of many leads that consist of people looking to sell their timeshare. Jane Doe works for Acme Resales and calls a lead that happens to be you. She gives you a pitch, you bite for $998, and you never hear from her again realizing after a year you got scammed. Jane took her $400 commission off of you and had a nice weekend smoking crack with your money. John Doe works for us and is on assignment at Acme Resales. Instead of Jane getting your lead John does. He calls you, gives you the same pitch Jane would have, and you bite for $998. John takes his $400 commission off of you and uses a portion of the money to fund these investigations and helps others who have been victimized. John calls you 45 days later and tells you who he really works for, what he did, and why he did it. He also educates you that any company requiring upfront fees is a scam so you never fall victim again. He gives you explicit instructions on how to get your money back which you follow to the T and get your money back. Acme Resales looses the $998 sale plus the $400 they paid in commission to John and can't collect from our rep being John no longer "works" there, plus a $50 chargeback fee, plus 3% for the original charge, plus another 3% for the charge being reversed totaling a loss to Acme Resales in the amount of $509.88 per customer. In 60 days John should get a minimum of 50 deals so you do the math and ask your self how far we shove it up their you know what dry with no lubrication.

Would you rather be called by John or Jane? Let's play devils advocate and say after following John's instructions you are unsuccessful (very unlikely). In that case we offer you our services for free, you get your money back, and never pay another upfront fee again. Let's assume worst case scenario and you can't get your money back from the company nor are we successful... You would have paid the same fee whether John or Jane called you. At least John gave you an education that saved you money in the long run as you will never fall for it again. Say what you want about once bitten twice shy. We know from experience that people fall for it multiple times. In my days as a timeshare resale agent I sold a guy who had paid 6 other companies.

At the end of the day we are doing far more good than the little bad. We all go to sleep at night just fine knowing that we are making a difference in peoples lives and giving back. It doesn't excuse us for what some of us did in the past but the past is the past and today is the first day of the rest of our lives. We aren't proud of how we use to make nice livings but I for one am proud of what I do now. Are we scam artists? Yes we are! We are some of the best scam artists out there only we don't scam innocent consumers. We scam the scammers who prey on the hard working and ever too trusting timeshare owners like yourself.

The above was far too long and confusing to read the entire post. BOTTOM LINE, if any company asks for an UPFRONT FEE in the HUNDREDS of DOLLARS, they are SCAMS, PERIOD.

I take back what I said about my last post being too long, the reply I got from the resaleripoffs.com person made mine pale in comparison.

I wasn't real surprised though because you had some lengthy replies to posts on Tugg as well.

Perhaps you misunderstood, I didn't really have a question for you at all much less having a main question as to how you got refunds for victims. The point was why I didn't credit you directly because of my concerns about your business. If you feel slighted then I apologize just for that.

As far as stealing a post from your forum as you put is up for debate. My error was probably using it to begin with in as far as it has done what I didn't want to happen in the first place, which was to give your site a new audience without knowing the legitamacy of your service. Before you get defensive again I am not accusing you of anything but I still have concerns about what you say you do and the effectiveness you have in doing it.

Chargebacks are not quite as easy as you put it. Some card companies are more consumer friendly than others. Plus, any good scam operation knows how to walk a victim through the verification process so that chargebacks are almost a non issue.

garym, I wasn't speaking of your post being too long, I was speaking of resalers (which should be resellers not resalers).

Agreed. If any company ask for hundreds of dollars upfront for their service it is a scam. They have no incentive to move your property as they have already been paid.

If you have concerns then I wouldn't do it. Chargebacks would be a problem as we do not do verifications. We desinged it to make it easy for a customer to chargeback if they had to. We do get a signature on a contract but the contract says plain as day full refund if unsuccessful in 90 days.

No. It should not be resellers as we are not a resale company nor do we give any assistance to owners looking to sell other than the advice not to pay upfront. RedWeek should allow a longer name as I signed up with ResaleRipoffs but they shortened it to ResaleR.

Bottom line If you take something off of our forum whether you like us, love us, hate us, or otherwise post a credit link back or just don't take it off of our forum as it does not belong to you. If you support what we do great. If not you are entitled to your opinion.

No problem JayJay, I knew you were talking about resaler and not myself.

I just thought my post that elicited the reply from resaler was getting long winded and cut it off but then I saw the reply to it and knew I wasn't anywhere near what a long winded post could be.

I had read some rather long replies resaler made on Tugg to members who questioned his service so I wasn't real surprised at the length of the one above.

Also, I made this post in regards to Timesharemls.org originally and I myself have unintentially caused it to stray from that topic.

jayjay wrote:

This is why I would love for an investigative journalist to take on the task of outting all lies told by salespeople in the timeshare industry. It would certainly be a major coup for the journalist's career and a major eye opener for the public.

JayJay:

For a couple of years now I've managed a Yahoo group populated by well over 250 people (and growing) among thousands ripped off by Copeland Marketing based in Daytona, which remanifested later as World Wide Vacation Realty (out of Georgia, then Daytona) - after our group worked together to put Copeland out of business. These egregious operators adapted the "standard" ripoff strategies so well-described here (and elsewhere by GaryM172).

We did everything under the sun to get the Florida Attorney General's office to prosecute or force them to refund the clients - to no avail. Couldn't find any attorney willing to handle a class action suit. Couldn't seem to get any media coverage of the problem, yet we are still trying:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Copeland_Marketing_Investigation/

My question is - have you found (or even heard of) a top-flight journalist or two willing to act as you described above? Sure would like to get hold of someone like that.

Where can some of these thousands of members among dozens of disgruntled ripped-off groups get organized to work together on exposing these scams in a major way?

Clair (now living in Canberra, Australia)

clairh2 wrote:

My question is - have you found (or even heard of) a top-flight journalist or two willing to act as you described above? Sure would like to get hold of someone like that.

Where can some of these thousands of members among dozens of disgruntled ripped-off groups get organized to work together on exposing these scams in a major way?

Clair (now living in Canberra, Australia)

I don't have any personal experience with outing rip-off groups as I never gave them the chance to rip me off ..... I sold all nine of my timeshare weeks via Redweek and the internet, however there's power in numbers and the more numbers you get the more power you have in dealing with these rip-off artists.

May I ask you why the Florida Attorney General did nothing concerning your complaint ? I would keep on forever filing complaints until I got some answers.

clairh2 wrote:

For a couple of years now I've managed a Yahoo group populated by well over 250 people (and growing) among thousands ripped off by Copeland Marketing based in Daytona, which remanifested later as World Wide Vacation Realty (out of Georgia, then Daytona) - after our group worked together to put Copeland out of business.

Kudos to you and your group for putting those criminals out of business ..... you didn't give up. Anyone who has ever been ripped off by upfront fee scam companies should follow your example in putting them out of business. As I said earlier, there's power in numbers.

NEWS RELEASE

ATTORNEY GENERAL: INJUNCTION SOUGHT AGAINST TWO TIMESHARE RESALE COMPANIES

TALLAHASSEE, FL – Attorney General Bill McCollum today announced that his office has filed a lawsuit

and has requested an emergency injunction against two related South Florida timeshare resale marketing

companies. Universal Marketing Solutions, Creative Vacation Solutions, and owner/manager Jennifer Kirk

allegedly collected over $4 million in marketing fees on a monthly basis, but rarely if ever marketed, advertised,

or facilitated sales for the timeshare owners who had contracts with the companies. The injunction requests the

companies’ cease doing any timeshare business while the lawsuit is pending.

An investigation conducted by the Attorney General’s Economic Crimes Division indicated that Kirk and her

companies were charging marketing fees as high as $2,500 for timeshare resale advertising services.

The companies were soliciting hundreds of consumers nationwide via the internet and though aggressive

telemarketing calls, allegedly making empty promises and false misrepresentations that they would actively

match timeshare sellers with prospective buyers. According to the lawsuit, when prospective buyers contact the

companies to purchase a timeshare, no attempt would be made by the companies to match those prospective

buyers with sellers who had contracted with the companies, thus making the advertising and marketing claims a

complete sham.

To solicit more customers, the companies allegedly boasted of their “superior marketing tools,” including

marketing events, presentations and seminars. Kirk and her companies allegedly claimed they could

“definitely” sell timeshares within a certain period of time and that they had buyers waiting with approved

financing to buy the consumers’ timeshare. Consumers were also verbally assured contract terms during

telemarketing calls, but were furnished contracts with entirely different terms regarding the resale services.

Additionally, the companies would allegedly charge consumers’ credit cards or cash consumers’ checks without

and/or before obtaining a signed written contract from the consumer delineating all the terms and conditions of

the services to be provided.

Consumers who complained to the Attorney General’s Office reported that the companies have not performed

the promised services and that they were unable to contact the companies or get refunds. The Attorney

General's Office believes that there could a total of more than 400 victims affected by the two companies'

deceptive practices, and has been receiving approximately 10 complaints per day against these companies. The

lawsuit seeks an injunction prohibiting the defendants from engaging in any timeshare resale business while the

litigation is pending. The lawsuit also requests full restitution on behalf of all victimized consumers, civil

penalties, and reimbursement for fees and costs related to the investigation.

Consumers may file a complaint about Universal Marketing Solutions or Creative Vacation Solutions by

visiting the Attorney General’s website at http://www.myfloridalegal.com or by calling the fraud hotline at 1-

866-966-7226.

A copy of a consumer affidavit form and instructions is available online at:

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/KGRG-7XBT2F/$file/TimeshareAffidavit.pdf

A copy of the lawsuit is available online at:

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/MRAY-7XENWJ/$file/ComplaintForInjunctiveRelief.pdf

I am from Australia and have been ANOTHER victim of Timeshare MLS.org scam. Back in November 2007 they (from Florida) contacted me and told me they could sell my timeshare at my selling price I had with the Australian Timeshare company within 60 days. It is now 24 months later and I have sold it, but privately at a much lower selling price as timeshares are not worth the money they are bought for, believe me they are a "take" unless you do not work, unemployed or well off financially. All I received from Timeshare MLS.org was thank you for the "donation"(up front fee), many broken promises, rude responses and extremely bad customer service, where you only get a reply if you are very lucky and you keep on there case. There ethics are non existant as is their methods to sell your timeshare. They have all these "showcases" but nothing comes of them and you hear nothing back. Within Timeshare MLS org the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing and they are not responsible for their actions. Mr Frankie Martinez is apparently the face/voice of the customer service, or what they call the customer service department-a real good salesperson, all talk and promises but no results. I have been in contact with government legal departments regards Timeshare MLS org and there are several legal cases against Timeshare MLS org, which they cannot discuss. So if you have a timeshare, good luck if you ever try to sell, don't expect anything like what you paid for it and if you are thinking of buying one - DON'T, there a too many hidden traps and ALL timeshare companies, whether they are sellers or buyers are the same.

judik7 wrote:

NEWS RELEASE

ATTORNEY GENERAL: INJUNCTION SOUGHT AGAINST TWO TIMESHARE RESALE COMPANIES

TALLAHASSEE, FL – Attorney General Bill McCollum today announced that his office has filed a lawsuit

and has requested an emergency injunction against two related South Florida timeshare resale marketing

companies. Universal Marketing Solutions, Creative Vacation Solutions, and owner/manager Jennifer Kirk

allegedly collected over $4 million in marketing fees on a monthly basis, but rarely if ever marketed, advertised,

or facilitated sales for the timeshare owners who had contracts with the companies. The injunction requests the

companies’ cease doing any timeshare business while the lawsuit is pending.

An investigation conducted by the Attorney General’s Economic Crimes Division indicated that Kirk and her

companies were charging marketing fees as high as $2,500 for timeshare resale advertising services.

The companies were soliciting hundreds of consumers nationwide via the internet and though aggressive

telemarketing calls, allegedly making empty promises and false misrepresentations that they would actively

match timeshare sellers with prospective buyers. According to the lawsuit, when prospective buyers contact the

companies to purchase a timeshare, no attempt would be made by the companies to match those prospective

buyers with sellers who had contracted with the companies, thus making the advertising and marketing claims a

complete sham.

To solicit more customers, the companies allegedly boasted of their “superior marketing tools,” including

marketing events, presentations and seminars. Kirk and her companies allegedly claimed they could

“definitely” sell timeshares within a certain period of time and that they had buyers waiting with approved

financing to buy the consumers’ timeshare. Consumers were also verbally assured contract terms during

telemarketing calls, but were furnished contracts with entirely different terms regarding the resale services.

Additionally, the companies would allegedly charge consumers’ credit cards or cash consumers’ checks without

and/or before obtaining a signed written contract from the consumer delineating all the terms and conditions of

the services to be provided.

Consumers who complained to the Attorney General’s Office reported that the companies have not performed

the promised services and that they were unable to contact the companies or get refunds. The Attorney

General's Office believes that there could a total of more than 400 victims affected by the two companies'

deceptive practices, and has been receiving approximately 10 complaints per day against these companies. The

lawsuit seeks an injunction prohibiting the defendants from engaging in any timeshare resale business while the

litigation is pending. The lawsuit also requests full restitution on behalf of all victimized consumers, civil

penalties, and reimbursement for fees and costs related to the investigation.

Consumers may file a complaint about Universal Marketing Solutions or Creative Vacation Solutions by

visiting the Attorney General’s website at http://www.myfloridalegal.com or by calling the fraud hotline at 1-

866-966-7226.

A copy of a consumer affidavit form and instructions is available online at:

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/KGRG-7XBT2F/$file/TimeshareAffidavit.pdf

A copy of the lawsuit is available online at:

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/MRAY-7XENWJ/$file/ComplaintForInjunctiveRelief.pdf

Please keep me advised of the status of this case. I am curious as unfortunately, I am a fool that has been ripped off by these companies, as in all under the realm of this group, within the last 3 years. I guess you would think I should learn my lesson, but with the way the economy is now, and the need for funds, the pitch sounded very good and would have been very helpful IF it was the truth. I have heard something about some sort of restitution fund either being considered, or being made available to people who have proof of payment made to these groups. If there is such information available, please point me in the right direction for me to apply for any possible refund that may be made available. I know it should be a lesson in life, but unfortunately, we sometimes only hear what makes the most sense and in this case, the funds it would have generated, would have solved many financial problems. However, instead, it created a new set that is probably worse than the ones I had before. If you need any backup info from me, just ask and I will be more than happy to provide it. I hardly ever throw anything away untikl I am sure it won't be needed for the future. All you need do is ask. I'll be more than happy to forward it to you.

Additionally, I have been contacted by a group telling me they can obtain most of my fees paid from the fund I alluded to but to do so, they want 50% of the amount of fees recovered. That sounds exorbitant to me so I have not gone anywhere with that yet. Have to know more about this to see IF there is a fund to begin with. Please let me know about the fund mainly, and if there is one, what is needed and how do you apply for return of premiums paid. Thank you, in advanace for you assistance. James T. Flynn III, 1886 Winners Circle, N. Southaven, MS, 386721, 662-349-9695.

Hello Gary (& forum readers):

I am suspecting I may be in the same boat as others being scammed ... I have recently (this year 2010) dealt with and signed on with GMAC Real Estate Timeshare Division (GMAC-TSD)company to market my Wyndham timeshare points for rent.

I have since been trying to do further research on this company and not sure what to believe from various websites complaining about GMAC-TSD.

The sales person I spoke with at GMAC-TSD said they should be able to rent my timeshare very quickly ... since there were several events coming up in March & April that will need timeshare spaces. I paid the upfront money ($1000). This salesperson assued me that their company was different than the other scam companies (mentioned by name Timeshares Only, etc) because they (sales force) are paid when they rent out the timeshare - not form the upfront money I pay - which supposedly goes to GMAC-TSD headquarters.

The salesperson also reitereated that GMAC-TSD has a partnership with Travelocity .. specifically indicating this partnership establishes their high credibility.

I have also called back the original sales person to get a status. The salesperson had an excuse of why they could not yet rent out my points yet .. but assured me upcoming events in April would been getting rental activity.

I have purposefully left out names in this post so as to protect myself - in case GMAC-TSD is looking for potential 'whistle blowers' on the WWW.

My questions to this forum - 1. Has anyone else dealt with GMAC Real Estate Timeshare Division (GMACTSD)? 2. Is GMACTSD an aka name or associated with CHL Marketing and/or Howard Levene? 3. Is GMAC-TSD another scammer business or possibly a franchise that is using the GMAC reputation to gain the public trust? Or is GMAC-TSD a legitimate timeshare rental marketing business? 4. I think I have traced one of the phone numbers given to me by GMACTSD to CHL Marketing .. but not certain - 888-750-GMAC(4622) and 321-274-9687; Fax: 407-992-8835 This is the company corp address info - 4630 S. Kirkman Rd #601 Orlando, FL 32811 Fax: 407-992-8835

Thank you for all your effort and time with informing the public about these scams. I sincerely appreaciate any help.

JM

GMAC (timeshare division) is just another upfront fee scam company .... all resale/rental companies that require an upfront fee are scams .... file a complaint with the attorney general in the state the scammers are located. How they are able to use GMAC as a their company name is beyond me.

Hi JM,

If you haven't already filed a complaint with the Florida Attorney General's office I would suggest doing so asap. It appears they are very receptive right now so now is the time to get it to someone who will listen.