Diamond Resorts raises maintenance fees again!

I just stopped paying both mortgage and M+T. They send their "hounds" after you who threaten to ruin your credit. However, most developers won't actually do that since it shows up on their "default" ratio and also it costs them a lot to foreclose. Just ignore all the collections efforts for 12 months or so and eventually tell them you'll take a warranty deed in lieu of foreclosure (WDIL). In this situation most of them (not necessarily all) will do this since it saves them money and allows them to sell it on again, they may try to charge a fee but it's VERY negotiable - then you're free and clear - NO CREDIT impacts.

With Westgate we have a support forum and over 50+ of us have escaped this way with no effects on our credit.

davek194 wrote:

I just stopped paying both mortgage and M+T. They send their "hounds" after you who threaten to ruin your credit. However, most developers won't actually do that since it shows up on their "default" ratio and also it costs them a lot to foreclose. Just ignore all the collections efforts for 12 months or so and eventually tell them you'll take a warranty deed in lieu of foreclosure (WDIL). In this situation most of them (not necessarily all) will do this since it saves them money and allows them to sell it on again, they may try to charge a fee but it's VERY negotiable - then you're free and clear - NO CREDIT impacts.

With Westgate we have a support forum and over 50+ of us have escaped this way with no effects on our credit.

This is bad advice as it depends on the developer/loan company (patricia's seems to be Diamond Resorts) as to what they will do regarding an unpaid debt. Everyone must do their research as to what their developer/loan company would do in such cases. Having a ding on your credit score impacts many things in life including any future loans and job applications.

Walking away is a choice and requires that you've arrived at the decision that no other way works for you and that you've exhausted all other avenues. It's not necessarily "bad advice". It does need work and the ability to "potentially" take a credit hit (although this is dependent on the particular developer and many of them REALLY DON"T WANT to go there)

davek194 wrote:

It's not necessarily "bad advice". It does need work and the ability to "potentially" take a credit hit (although this is dependent on the particular developer and many of them REALLY DON"T WANT to go there)

When I said this was bad advice unilaterally, I meant that it was bad advice that ALL developers, management companies and HOAs would not turn a timeshare debt into the credit agencies. Most people don't want a hit on their credit score as it affects so many things in life (future loans, job applications, insurance etc) especially for younger folks.

And, your last sentence says it all "many of them (developers, management companies, HOAs) really don't want to go there" ..... BUT many of them WILL go there ... that's why they have attorneys on their payroll.

From what I gather you speak of (allegedly) Westgate only.

I can personally speak to Westgate regarding both US and non US investors. In all cases followed by our forum (over 50+) Westgate has NEVER reported to the credit agencies and have issued warranty deeds in lieu to all of us with no credit impacts.

For non US investors with other Developers I can personally speak to a case with Wyndham who have chosen not to follow-up here in Canada on a mortgage default - to do so they would have to obtain a judgement in a Canadian court which is more costly than absorbing their "loss". This can also (but not always) be the case for other non US countries, but in all cases a local judgement is required.

Well, they have done it again! In another unconscionable abuse of their members, Diamond Resorts International has raised my 2013 maintenance fees by 23.3 percent! Unbelievable. And they want me to contribute $5.00 to their lobbying group so they can advocate that their predatory business practices remain legal.

Wh

robertr558 wrote:

Well, they have done it again! In another unconscionable abuse of their members, Diamond Resorts International has raised my 2013 maintenance fees by 23.3 percent! Unbelievable. And they want me to contribute $5.00 to their lobbying group so they can advocate that their predatory business practices remain legal.

Where do you own that went up 23%? Do you own a week? If so, where?

robertr558 wrote:

Unbelievable. And they want me to contribute $5.00 to their lobbying group so they can advocate that their predatory business practices remain legal.

If you're speaking of the $5.00 contribution to ARDA .... I would NEVER pay that as ARDA = American Resort Developer Association ..... they are proponents of the developer, not the timeshare purchase/owner.

I never pay the $5.00 to ARDA either. I have some confusion about some of the rest of this discussion. I am a deeded owner, and it is my understanding that the maintenance fees are not set by DRI but by the resort itself. I don't know about the DRI Board, but I believe you can run to be on the Board of the resort where you are an owner. Actually, my maintenance fees have remained fairly stable for the last three years. But my Club Dues have almost doubled!

Diamond told me that the maintenance fees were not set by them but by the Board of the association. I don't believe that for a minute. I think the Board is controlled by DRI employees and DRI is behind everything. In two years my maintenance fee has increased by 42%. The increases started after DRI took over. It's not a good deal any more.

I don't believe timeshares have been a "good deal" since the early 90s. they had a brief heyday, then started a steep decline in value around 1994. I had bought one in 93 that I sold in 97 for less than half of what I paid for it. And of course, it has gotten worse. They are now worth literally nothing on the market. Yet when I go for a vacation, I see people still buying them from the developer at ridiculous prices. I really don't understand that!!

They are not buying the product at that point. They are buying a sales pitch and all that goes along with it.

annetter60 wrote:

I don't believe timeshares have been a "good deal" since the early 90s. they had a brief heyday, then started a steep decline in value around 1994. I had bought one in 93 that I sold in 97 for less than half of what I paid for it. And of course, it has gotten worse. They are now worth literally nothing on the market. Yet when I go for a vacation, I see people still buying them from the developer at ridiculous prices. I really don't understand that!!

Timeshares have never been a 'good deal' as far as an investment no matter what a timeshare salesperson may have told you. Buying a timeshare IS an investment is future vacations in luxury accommodations ..... that's ALL they are.

Never, ever buy from a developer ..... buy on the resale market.

In this day and time with the internet in almost every home it behooves me that so many people will sign on the dotted line without researching timesharing to the ultimate degree, BUT they are on vacation and are caught up in the moment when a developer salesperson presents all the bells and whistles of a luxurious resort, the accommodations and the amenities.

I know first hand as we bought our first from a developer sales presentation at a luxurious resort that we later sold for pennies on the dollar.

Of course, it is correct that they were never a good deal as an investment. But even as a vacation ownership, they have totally lost their value, because maintenance fees have gone up so high. Initially, we bought from the developer before there was a resale market. But by now, so much information is out there about this, that anyone who did a little checking before buying would know not to pay those prices!

jayjay wrote:

annetter60 wrote:

I don't believe timeshares have been a "good deal" since the early 90s. they had a brief heyday, then started a steep decline in value around 1994. I had bought one in 93 that I sold in 97 for less than half of what I paid for it. And of course, it has gotten worse. They are now worth literally nothing on the market. Yet when I go for a vacation, I see people still buying them from the developer at ridiculous prices. I really don't understand that!!

Timeshares have never been a 'good deal' as far as an investment no matter what a timeshare salesperson may have told you. Buying a timeshare IS an investment is future vacations in luxury accommodations ..... that's ALL they are.

Never, ever buy from a developer ..... buy on the resale market.

In this day and time with the internet in almost every home it behooves me that so many people will sign on the dotted line without researching timesharing to the ultimate degree, BUT they are on vacation and are caught up in the moment when a developer salesperson presents all the bells and whistles of a luxurious resort, the accommodations and the amenities.

I know first hand as we bought our first from a developer sales presentation at a luxurious resort that we later sold for pennies on the dollar.

Steve Cloobeck is still promoting the Undercover Boss theme with this latest promotion they just emailed me. Of course a timeshare presentation is required for the lucky winners. The sales people are so good at what they do that they surely expect a good return on investment. And they are offering airfare too. A timeshare is the only thing you can spend tens of thousands of dollars on and you can't resell it for a penny the minute you sign on the dotted line.

>YOU CAN GO UNDERCOVER AT A DIAMOND RESORT!

>Ten lucky families will be selected to go "undercover" with a complimentary >vacation at an amazing Diamond Resorts International® destination! You'll >enjoy a complimentary vacation, and then report back to our Chairman

OK I just spent a week at Los Abrigados and went for "The Upate" First question I asked was why maintenance dues increased 80%. The answer was 1st ILX was paying part on MD and it needed to be raised because DRI does not pay MD. 2nd dues has increased for 3 yrs and it is now done. We should only see increases 1-3% going forward. They told me that upgrades were coming to the property and we will definitely see the changes soon. Internet will be last. So however I did not join the "Club" or do any other upgrades, they still want me. We'll see and will keep ya updated.

robertr558 wrote:

YOU CAN GO UNDERCOVER AT A DIAMOND RESORT!

>Ten lucky families will be selected to go "undercover" with a complimentary >vacation at an amazing Diamond Resorts International® destination! You'll >enjoy a complimentary vacation, and then report back to our Chairman

For ten lucky winners they will have to endure a high pressure sales presentation pitch that can last for hours .... how lucky can those ten winners be.

If I am a winner, I won't feel pressure. I know how to say, "No thank you." I can say it very politely too.

jayjay wrote:

robertr558 wrote:

YOU CAN GO UNDERCOVER AT A DIAMOND RESORT!

>Ten lucky families will be selected to go "undercover" with a complimentary >vacation at an amazing Diamond Resorts International® destination! You'll >enjoy a complimentary vacation, and then report back to our Chairman

For ten lucky winners they will have to endure a high pressure sales presentation pitch that can last for hours .... how lucky can those ten winners be.

Even though I haven't won anything, I still get calls a couple times a year offering me a free "owner's appreciation" vacation weekend, which I always turn down.

charless345 wrote:

If I am a winner, I won't feel pressure. I know how to say, "No thank you." I can say it very politely too.

jayjay wrote:

robertr558 wrote:

YOU CAN GO UNDERCOVER AT A DIAMOND RESORT!

>Ten lucky families will be selected to go "undercover" with a complimentary >vacation at an amazing Diamond Resorts International® destination! You'll >enjoy a complimentary vacation, and then report back to our Chairman

For ten lucky winners they will have to endure a high pressure sales presentation pitch that can last for hours .... how lucky can those ten winners be.

Mr. Cloobeck appeared on Undercover Boss again just this past Friday. He did a better job than the first time; however, I get concerned when I see him buy bankrupt companies and say that he wants to be the biggest owner of luxury properties. How does he finance all these purchases? Is there a correlation between his buying spree and our increases in maintenance fees and club dues? I also feel uncomfortable with the largesse he delivers to a few employees compared to other CEOs on the same series. I am always concerned that our fees are being used. I hope I am wrong and would appreciate responses from Diamond International employess who are monitoring this site.