Manhattan Club Lawsuit

hello elainef88,

it is i who has 2 SEPARATE AND DISTINCT CONTRACTS: one paid in full (maintenance and taxes), the other with taxes but not maintenance paid: denied admittance to the aug 4 meeting, because i was "in arrears of my financial obligations." the fact is obvious: the eichner clan wanted as few owners as possible at the meeting......and the actual illegality of not allowing questions is totally absurd and must be addressed by a responsible timeshare regulatory agency (probably currently non-existent) concerning the board meetings of timeshares (the same as condominiums.) as i have urged in the past, the entire timeshare industry in the united states must be brought to task by the federal government and a national timeshare regulatory agency must be created to prevent/curtail current fraud, scamming and illegal financial and other activities perpetrated by the timeshare principals.....eg, eichner and cronies.

keep in touch,

stay well, but angry ( our current mc timeshare ownership dilemma.)

chrisv126

elainef88 wrote:

Shouldn't the AG be made aware of how owners were turned away from the Aug 4 meeting. I recall hearing of one owner who had 2 contracts for 2 separate weeks. He was paid up on one but still denied a ticket to attend. NAND the fact that no questions were allowed is reprehensible ... Why hold this meeting at all?

If a timeshare company is willing to take the MC as part of the sale of a new timeshare , will they be able to change the deed while the AG is in the mods of their case?

I know this is a wild guess but does anyone know how long this will drag on? My patience is wearing thin and I feel I have this huge albatross around my neck until this is settled.

Thank you.

Jim

The short answer is no. It could be years. Use it, rent it out. This was the opinion of those in the know at the August 2, meeting.

jimt355 wrote:

I know this is a wild guess but does anyone know how long this will drag on? My patience is wearing thin and I feel I have this huge albatross around my neck until this is settled.

Thank you.

Jim

I did not notice that the opinion of those in the know at the August 2 meeting was to 'Use it, rent it out'. If you want to "use it or rent it" you have to pay the dues. The dues cover the developer's prosecution expenses. If the owners continue to pay the dues that will be an albatross not only for the current owner but for their heirs and beneficiaries. The MC annual budgets and the AG's conclusion demonstrate that the MC profitability comes out from the dues not from the renting the rooms to the public.

I stopped paying the fees last year supplying my decision with the strong email letters to the MC explaining my decision. Since then I did not receive any solicit phone calls or emails from the collectors.

There is a post from the Redweek meeting on the youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1Of2mKLC0

Dear MC owners: could you please post your opinions to support the Redweek efforts to supporting us?

Yes , I assume the case won't go on forever. Yes, to use it or rent it, you must pay the dues. Not paying has unknown consequences. If you think non payment hurts Eichner, it doesn't. He just rents out the vacant spaces. It has become much easier to get the dates you want if you pay. Easier then before all this. I don't think you are going to convince enough people to stop using the Manhattan club to cause some sort of collapse of who or what and that collapse would work well for all of us. Wait for the courts.

fibon wrote:

I did not notice that the opinion of those in the know at the August 2 meeting was to 'Use it, rent it out'. If you want to "use it or rent it" you have to pay the dues. The dues cover the developer's prosecution expenses. If the owners continue to pay the dues that will be an albatross not only for the current owner but for their heirs and beneficiaries. The MC annual budgets and the AG's conclusion demonstrate that the MC profitability comes out from the dues not from the renting the rooms to the public.

I stopped paying the fees last year supplying my decision with the strong email letters to the MC explaining my decision. Since then I did not receive any solicit phone calls or emails from the collectors.

Please click on this link to get audio and video of a very recent podcast on Manhattan Club issues hosted by TimeSharing Today, one of RedWeek.com's co-hosts of the Aug. 2 owners meeting in Manhattan. It features comments from all of the presenters at the meeting, with updates on the AG's case.

Want all Manhattan Club owners to know, as well, that your case is being watched all over the country. I attended an owner meeting today in Lake Tahoe held by the Tahoe Beach and Ski Club, which is in a court fight against Diamond Resorts over who will control the board and the future of the resort. In talking to owners, many of them told me they were following the Manhattan Club case and wished owners the best of luck. That's the kind of community you cannot buy in a timeshare store.

Here is the link to the podcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1Of2mKLC0

"Yes, to use it or rent it, you must pay the dues. Not paying has unknown consequences. If you think non payment hurts Eichner, it doesn't. He just rents out the vacant spaces. It has become much easier to get the dates you want if you pay. "

I paid upfront the full payment for my MC interest in the amount of appr. $ 24,000. I did not get reservations within 3 years in a row. Which means that some other the 'privileged' TMC owner got my occupancy. Or my occupancy was rented out to the public, and in this case Mr. Eichner got extra money. For me such a biannual non-usage comes out to appr. $2000 x 3/ 2 = $3000.

Total, my non-usable investment into the MC BS comes to $24,000+ $3,000=$27,000. Considering the current cost of the dues for the 1BDR suite biannual equals to appr. $2,400, no owner has to pay my no-payments because my dues have been covered for the next ~5.6 years {$27,000 / $2,400/2 = 5,6 }. I am not proceeding with the financial details. I paid my taxes thus my dues coverage would be higher.

In regards to " It has become much easier to get the dates", it's a known fact that the outsider can get ANY DATES for the cheap promotional rates $199 per night or even $ 99 per night when booking online.

fibon wrote:

There is a post from the Redweek meeting on the youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1Of2mKLC0

Dear MC owners: could you please post your opinions to support the Redweek efforts to supporting us?

hi fibon AND ALL OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS REDWEEK.COM MC TIMESHARE OWNERS' FORUM, i want to "second" fibon's motion: "Dear MC owners: could you please post your opinions to support the Redweek efforts to supporting us?" currently this forum is approaching the 75 page mark.....my opinion = good but "no cigar!!"

this forum should be overflowing (with over 2-300 pages) with owners' comments: mainly complaints. the reason this is not happening in the volumes we need is simple: not enough MC DEFRAUDED OWNERS ARE AWARE THAT THIS FORUM EXISTS (or that we had a meeting in nyc on aug 2, 2015.)

at our SUCCESSFUL aug 2, 2015 meeting, 120 owners attended....again, wonderful, but still "no cigar." i believe that there are hundreds more MC owners within a reasonable traveling distance to NYC who would have attended the meeting had they known about it.....the reason is clear: we need to make our efforts here on redweek.com known to other owners who are part of other forums, eg, the yahoo group. a splintered organization is not a powerful enough combatant against the scamming and fraud that we owners have endured (and are continuing to endure via our outrageous maintenance fees.) does anyone here know if we have a list of all MC owners to make it easier for us to make these essential contacts? or does anyone have other ideas on how to SPREAD OUR MESSAGE MORE UNIVERSALLY?

PLEASE, LET'S HEAR SOME CREATIVE, DOABLE IDEAS ON MAKING THIS FORUM A POWERFUL INSTRUMENT TOWARD WINNING THIS BATTLE............WAR..............AGAINST THE THE MANHATTAN CLUB FRAUD AND OTHER TIMESHARES WITH HISTORIES OF FRAUDULENT ACTIVITY.

keep in touch.

chris

We have been paying our dues each year and either using or renting it. The fees are outrageous and don't begin to cover the cost of renting. Forget about having a choice on which days you want to go that isn't happening. We are the fortunate few that have guarantee of 3 days New Years Eve so at least we don't have to fight for that time. As far as the other 4 days, we lost them last year. We ended up paying another owner to go the days we wanted to be there. We are inclined to hold on to it for awhile, pay our dues and see what the AG outcome is. We are hoping there will be a benefit one way or the other to the owners.

There is something I am missing. I have no problem booking as long as I am nine months ahead. I don't like that, but it works. I have even cancelled reservations and rebooked on days only a month away. However, if you are trying to book the week before Christmas that is going to be hard. I agree, before the AG got involved, we were all getting taken. Now the skies are clearer. All of us have laid out big money, especially if you came on recently. If you came on recently, the fees were already high. What more do you think we should do?

First, I would like to thank Jeff, Mr. Wasser, Shep, Greg and Bob that headed the Aug. 2nd owners meeting. We were able to attend. The information and support that you have given us is invaluable. We have been owners since 1999. We have never been able to use our full 7 days. Early on, we could get a couple nights here and another there. At one point, we just stared depositing our time and using it through RCI.

We pay our fees every year even though they have risen to an exorbitant amount. We own another timeshare and the fees are only about $750.00.

My year starts in February at the MC. Last year I received my bill in September and this year in July. Even though this is being investigated, they seem to still be playing that game. I never pay them until January.

*Jeff, I have a question, there is talk about the building itself in the audio. Is the building owned, mortgaged, leased, etc.?

We do plan on joining the group with Mr. Wasser. His expertise and knowledge is beneficial to all of us.

One of the possible outcomes of the AG's investigation is that, as part of a settlement agreement with the AG, a NY state court order or a federal bankruptcy ruling, that the Manhattan Club will be sold to a third party (e.g., Marriott, Hilton, etc.). This kind of sale would be contingent on the fair market value of the property per square foot. During our Aug. 2 meeting with owners in Manhattan, attorney Douglas Wasser estimated that the property would sell for an extremely large amount based upon comps in the area. However, that begs the obvious question: what would happen to owners in the event of a sale or a bankruptcy? We will post the answer when and IF the attorney general's office is willing to address it. So far, the AG's office does not want to discuss anything. This is an understandable legal position because it protects their tactical options in this probe. But it does nothing to help owners who appear to be the ONLY real victims of the Manhattan Club's alleged misbehavior. New York residents who are also timeshare owners deserve more from AG Schneiderman than his weekly tweets about whatever he is doing. This week? Bead-dumping in local waters. Check it out. AG Eric T. Schneiderman likes to use the media when it suits his interests, just like TMC developer Ian Bruce Eichner. When it does not, they are silent.

RedWeek.com hosted an owner-meeting in Manhattan Aug. 2 with TimeSharing Today and NTOA precisely because the principals have deliberately refused to communicate with owners about what is happening --- and, more importantly, what they can do to control their own destiny in this case. You all deserve better communication from the AG and TMC, since you are their customers. In the absence of that, Manhattan Club owners could/should request a complete list of club owners from the board, so they can at least communicate amongst themselves.

We bought a studio for one week with the option of giving 84,600 points to RCI in lieu of staying in a studio at TMC for a week. We were told we could make the choice annually. The first year we owned we chose the points. This year when we asked to book a week at TMC we were told we had bought a "points contract." and only get the points annually. To top it off, they gave us less points this year. Is the AG addressing situations like ours where the contract we were sold is different from what we receive?

The AG is our only ally & hope. Lets stay positive, even though it seems to be a galactic battle of attrition... Moving at a glacial pace. He needs our support and kind words...and needs to finish before the next election.

jeff, read my post dated august 22, 2015. some creative thinking can lead to more favorable results re: COMMUNICATION, a component that is clearly missing in owners' "quest"........not referring to don quixote's windmill.....more owners must know that other legitimate, complaints are being made made by shareowners (in the redweek.com manhattan club forum) against the MANHATTAN CLUb . we need to get more owners involved in our battle with eichner, eg, from other forums such as the yahoo.com owners' forum. as noted in my latest post here, owners' groups are splintered; we therefore cannot develop and present a united front against our enemy, ian bruce eichner. again, from my post, i believe more owners within traveling distance of nyc would have attended our aug 2 meeting had they known about it: COMMUNICATION WAS/IS MISSING. i will consider requesting a complete list of TMC owners from eichner. i suspect that he'll have a reason for giving me negative reply to my request; WHERE DO I GO FROM THERE?

keep in touch,

chris

jeff_reports wrote:

One of the possible outcomes of the AG's investigation is that, as part of a settlement agreement with the AG, a NY state court order or a federal bankruptcy ruling, that the Manhattan Club will be sold to a third party (e.g., Marriott, Hilton, etc.). This kind of sale would be contingent on the fair market value of the property per square foot. During our Aug. 2 meeting with owners in Manhattan, attorney Douglas Wasser estimated that the property would sell for an extremely large amount based upon comps in the area. However, that begs the obvious question: what would happen to owners in the event of a sale or a bankruptcy? We will post the answer when and IF the attorney general's office is willing to address it. So far, the AG's office does not want to discuss anything. This is an understandable legal position because it protects their tactical options in this probe. But it does nothing to help owners who appear to be the ONLY real victims of the Manhattan Club's alleged misbehavior. New York residents who are also timeshare owners deserve more from AG Schneiderman than his weekly tweets about whatever he is doing. This week? Bead-dumping in local waters. Check it out. AG Eric T. Schneiderman likes to use the media when it suits his interests, just like TMC developer Ian Bruce Eichner. When it does not, they are silent.

RedWeek.com hosted an owner-meeting in Manhattan Aug. 2 with TimeSharing Today and NTOA precisely because the principals have deliberately refused to communicate with owners about what is happening --- and, more importantly, what they can do to control their own destiny in this case. You all deserve better communication from the AG and TMC, since you are their customers. In the absence of that, Manhattan Club owners could/should request a complete list of club owners from the board, so they can at least communicate amongst themselves.

minutes of TMCNY meeting, tues., aug 4, 2015:

Time Share Board Of Directors Members of The Manhattan Club Timeshare Association Board of Directors can be contacted by addressing mail to their attention c/o The Manhattan Club Executive Office, 200 West 56th Street, New York, NY 10019. All mail received for board members will be forwarded, by the Executive Office, to the Board Member to whom it is addressed. Members of The Manhattan Club Timeshare Association Stuart Eichner President email: Timeshareboard@manhattanclub.com Scott L. Lager Vice President email: Timeshareboard@manhattanclub.com Joshua A. Wirshba Board Member email: Timeshareboard@manhattanclub.com Salvatore Reale Board Member email: Timeshareboard@manhattanclub.com Patricia Soltys Non-Sponsor Board Member email: patti.tmcny@gmail.com James Dunphy Non-Sponsor Board Member email: jdunphytmcny@hotmail.com Robert Ballot Non-Sponsor Board Member email: bbb174@aol.com MINUTES OF THE ANNUAL MEETING OF OWNERS The Annual Meeting of Owners of the Manhattan Club Timeshare Association Inc. ("Timeshare Association") was held on August 4, 2015 at the Convene Conference Center located at 810 Seventh Avenue, New York, New York starting at 9 A.M. The meeting was duly called to order by Joshua A. Wirshba, a member of the Board of Directors ("Timeshare Board") of the Timeshare Association. Mr. Wirshba presented the proof of notice of meeting as mailed and transmitted by Broadridge Financial Solutions Inc. (“Broadridge”). Based upon information confirmed by Broadridge, Mr. Wirshba announced that the total number of Owners required for a quorum was represented at the meeting, in person and by proxy, and that the meeting was duly organized and ready to transact the business before it. Owner Richard Mulvaney gave a report of the Nominating Committee which presently consists of Richard Mulvaney, Stuart Eichner and Joshua A. Wirshba. Prior to the Annual Meeting, seven (7) Owners submitted resumes for the three (3) Non-Sponsor positions on the Timeshare Board. The Nominating Committee determined that the slate for the Non-Sponsor positions on the Timeshare Board for the ensuing year would be the following persons: Robert Ballot James T. Dunphy Neil Gilberg Sol Moretsky Patricia Soltys Mr. Wirshba stated that the election of the Timeshare Board was then in order and Owners who were attending the Annual Meeting and wished to vote in person had their ballots collected from the floor. Matthew Criscenzo of Broadridge served as the Inspector of the Election and tallied the ballots collected at the meeting in addition to the proxies that had been previously submitted. Mr. Wirshba then reported that the votes for the nominees had been tallied and the following Directors of the Timeshare Board were elected and/or designated for the ensuing year: Stuart Eichner – President, Board Member Scott L. Lager – Vice President, Board Member Joshua A. Wirshba – Board Member Salvatore P. Reale – Board Member Patricia Soltys – Non-Sponsor Board Member James T. Dunphy - Non-Sponsor Board Member Robert Ballot - Non-Sponsor Board Member There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned. Dated the 4th day of August 2015. Salvatore P. Reale, Board Member

TAKE SPECIAL NOTE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS AND THE................... NON-SPONSOR.................... BOARD MEMBERS (AKA.........PUPPETS) HEY, THE NON-SPONSOR BOARD MEMBERS ARE ALLEGEDLY OWNERS, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US HERE IN THIS FORUM (redweek.com). SO ONE WOULD ASSUME THAT THEY WORK FOR US OWNERS............................NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(THINK "WAYNE'S WORLD" FROM SNL) COME TO THINK OF IT, THE BOARD MEMBERS DO WORK FOR US.............THEY DO US THE FAVOR OF COLLECTING THE OUTRAGEOUSLY EXORBITANT MAINTENANCE FEES......QUITE A SERVICE!

let's get moving and become more and more proactive in our battle against eichner and gang. write/email/call him and his board to send a list of TMC timeshare owners primarily to give us some starting point as to how to contact other owners to join us in our quest/battle to right all the wrongs being heaped upon us by unscrupulous frauds and scammers.

keep in touch,

chris

I agree wholeheartedly. Who do you want to do this? I need a name.

jeff_reports wrote:

One of the possible outcomes of the AG's investigation is that, as part of a settlement agreement with the AG, a NY state court order or a federal bankruptcy ruling, that the Manhattan Club will be sold to a third party (e.g., Marriott, Hilton, etc.). This kind of sale would be contingent on the fair market value of the property per square foot. During our Aug. 2 meeting with owners in Manhattan, attorney Douglas Wasser estimated that the property would sell for an extremely large amount based upon comps in the area. However, that begs the obvious question: what would happen to owners in the event of a sale or a bankruptcy? We will post the answer when and IF the attorney general's office is willing to address it. So far, the AG's office does not want to discuss anything. This is an understandable legal position because it protects their tactical options in this probe. But it does nothing to help owners who appear to be the ONLY real victims of the Manhattan Club's alleged misbehavior. New York residents who are also timeshare owners deserve more from AG Schneiderman than his weekly tweets about whatever he is doing. This week? Bead-dumping in local waters. Check it out. AG Eric T. Schneiderman likes to use the media when it suits his interests, just like TMC developer Ian Bruce Eichner. When it does not, they are silent.

RedWeek.com hosted an owner-meeting in Manhattan Aug. 2 with TimeSharing Today and NTOA precisely because the principals have deliberately refused to communicate with owners about what is happening --- and, more importantly, what they can do to control their own destiny in this case. You all deserve better communication from the AG and TMC, since you are their customers. In the absence of that, Manhattan Club owners could/should request a complete list of club owners from the board, so they can at least communicate amongst themselves.

Sounds like "bait and switch" to me. Write a letter to the AG explaining the details.