WALK AWAY FROM TIMESHARE

Unless I remember wrongly, Ken, you really are a lawyer. It might help Ian to be aware of this. MD

adahiscout wrote:

Unless I remember wrongly, Ken, you really are a lawyer. It might help Ian to be aware of this. MD

Ian is clearly intent upon defending an indefensible and legally incorrect position, as is certainly his prerogative. I'll not invest ANY more time into this thread, as each and every pertinent legal point on the matter has already been put forth --- several separate times.

Ian will ultimately learn on his own that there are consequences associated with any chosen course of action, lawful or otherwise. In the end, we all make our own choices, with or without actually heeding solid input, good advice or irrefutable facts from others.

ken1193 wrote:

adahiscout wrote:

Unless I remember wrongly, Ken, you really are a lawyer. It might help Ian to be aware of this. MD

Somehow, I don't really think so. Neither would my own personal experience on the Board of Directors at several resorts over the course of the past few decades likely influence Ian or his stance.

Ian is clearly intent upon defending an indefensible and legally incorrect position, as is certainly his prerogative. I'll not invest ANY more time into this thread, as each and every pertinent legal point on the matter has already been put forth --- several separate times.

Ian will ultimately learn on his own that there are consequences associated with any chosen course of action, lawful or otherwise. In the end, we all make our own choices, with or without actually heeding solid input, good advice or irrefutable facts from others.

ian139 is not going to accept any answer that does not coincide with his in getting out from under the responsibility of his timeshare ownership.

I have suggested that he NOT pay his maintenance fees then he'll come to find out what the real repercussions are. Maybe then he'll get the message ..... trying to get him to understand the facts is a waste of time since we have stated the facts over and over again, as have Tug members, and he refuses to accept those facts.

ian139, you say there is "no contractual obligations" set out in the body of your acquisition deed. What you need to understand and no one has addressed this point is that you purchased the timeshare subject to the terms set out in a declaration filed in the deed records by the developer. As part of your due diligence prior to the purchase you should have read this declaration.

The deed usually refers to the declaration on file but its failure to do so does not free you of those obligations. They run with the land. The declaration requires you to pay the annual maintenance fees set by the owners association together with any special assessments. You cannot simply walk away from the timeshare without serious financial consequences. Your failure to pay the maintenance fees/special assessments allows the owners association to file a lien against your interest in the property and to ultimately foreclose that lien thereby taking back ownership of the timeshare.

The foreclosure will cause at least a 100 point drop in your credit score and possibly more as it will be on the public records and will be picked up by all three major national credit reporting agencies.

You can certainly compound your potential financial and legal problems by knowingly transferring the timeshare title to a sham corporation. Prosecutors always look for intent and your postings indicate an intent to defraud the timeshare and the owners who collectively will have to pick up the slack if you transfer title to a dummy corporation.

You apparently did not have an attorney involved in the purchase process but hiring one in the disposition process will be money well spent.

carvana wrote:

ian139, you say there is "no contractual obligations" set out in the body of your acquisition deed. What you need to understand and no one has addressed this point is that you purchased the timeshare subject to the terms set out in a declaration filed in the deed records by the developer. As part of your due diligence prior to the purchase you should have read this declaration.

The deed usually refers to the declaration on file but its failure to do so does not free you of those obligations. They run with the land. The declaration requires you to pay the annual maintenance fees set by the owners association together with any special assessments. You cannot simply walk away from the timeshare without serious financial consequences.

I'm now wondering if Ian's ownership was perhaps an eBay purchase in which a PCC (or other non-attorney entity) prepared a simplistic "kitchen table" quit claim deed, which perhaps included no reference at all to the underlying declaration documents. If that is the case, it might explain Ian's insistence regarding the absence of any such references. Hopefully, he will nonetheless absorb and accept at some point that those governing recorded declaration documents (whether or not specifically referenced within HIS particular resale deed) DO exist and WILL always prevail in regard to his (and all other) timeshare ownership rights, responsibilities and obligations.

We shall see. In any event, thank you again for weighing in here.

we bought our timeshares thinking that our kids with their kids would love to come to a unit where they had a space to put the grandkids to sleep and then relax in Living room...not so..they want all inclusive with all meals included so what is the best way to resell

After many months even years trying to sell or have Diamond take it back so I wasnt responsible for the fees, I was even told by diamond resorts that I had to get my fees up to date in order to sell the time share or even give it away, it was only until I got certified letters from their lawyers saying that I owed back Maint fees. I was just about ready to pay the $2000, I tod my wife to call the lawyer firm, she was told the same thing, Then I personally spoke to this lawyer firm....I told them what I was trying to do, they let me deed out and sign the time share back over to diamond resorts without having to pay the back owed fees. It took about 2 months for me to get the completed paperwork in the mail stating the transaction was done. This service for writing up papers etc of the transfer cost me $197... Now I am finally time share free!

chrisw306 wrote:

After many months even years trying to sell or have Diamond take it back so I wasnt responsible for the fees, I was even told by diamond resorts that I had to get my fees up to date in order to sell the time share or even give it away, it was only until I got certified letters from their lawyers saying that I owed back Maint fees. I was just about ready to pay the $2000, I tod my wife to call the lawyer firm, she was told the same thing, Then I personally spoke to this lawyer firm....I told them what I was trying to do, they let me deed out and sign the time share back over to diamond resorts without having to pay the back owed fees. It took about 2 months for me to get the completed paperwork in the mail stating the transaction was done. This service for writing up papers etc of the transfer cost me $197... Now I am finally time share free!

Some resorts will accept deedbacks and some won't. It doesn't hurt to ask.

jayjay wrote:

ian139 wrote:

So, you’re saying a timeshare is more like a dog than a car: • While you own a car, you pay to maintain it, license it, etc. But, if you want to be rid of it, you sell it, or if it has no value, you give it away or let it be towed away. • With a dog, you feed it, care for it, and if you no longer want to own it, you must find someone who will agree to feed it and care for it, can’t simply let it go. I’m still trying to figure out the right way to think about this. It seems to me that, legally, a timeshare is more like a car. As long as you want to own it, you pay to maintain it and taxes. But, you are NOT required to continue owning it for the rest of your life and paying on it, just because you once accepted the deed. The question is what is the best, ethical way to get rid of it? The answers I’m getting are understandably biased by the fact that they’re written by timeshare owners who do NOT want other owners walking from their timeshares. But, despite the fervency of the rhetoric, I’m not sure they’re correct.

In specific response to jayjay, who continues to try and bully me into his position: You again are resorting to insults. It is inappropriate. When one’s arguments are good, they speak for themselves. When they are not, you resort to personal insults. You have no idea what I know or knew about timeshares. I am increasingly disagreeing with your position. I’m not angry, just pointing out that you are being insulting rather than holding a proper dialogue, and you did it again in your latest post. I think it is quite possible that I am as “timeshare educated” as you, or more; yet, I disagree with your position. I am searching for answers to what is not a clear situation. There are many people (who, based on their posts, I suspect may be “timeshare educated”) who disagree with you. I request that you read your posts before posting them, and leave out the vitriol, and let your arguments speak for themselves without attacking the other parties.

Ownership of a vehicle is the same as ownership of a timeshare .... all financial responsibilities are the obligation of the owner until the vehicle or the timeshare is transferred out of their name.

What part of that do you not understand ????? There are no insults are bullying in my statement above ..... only FACTS, which, for some reason you can't seem to comprehend.

After years of paying maintenance fees on two contracts with the Mayan Palace, I decided I had had enough. I could no longer get the weeks I wanted, even when I tried to book 6 months away from my travel date. I had fully paid off my contract back in the 90's. I didn't want that back, only wanted to stop throwing good money after bad. When I really closely read my contract I couldn't see where it LEGALLY said I MUST pay the maintenance fee. I took it that if I didn't I would no longer be a member and could no longer book at the resorts. Big deal. That's exactly what I wanted. I took the contracts to a lawyer who agreed with me. He sent a letter to the MP that said since I was no longer able to book the weeks I wanted he considered the contract frustrated and null and void. He also said, not expecting them to agree, that we wanted my initial investment back and that they had two weeks to respond or further legal action would be taken. As soon as they got that letter I was called at home, asking me to explain what the issue was. I unloaded on the lady. After I was done she said I'd be emailed two .pdf files for my wife and I to sign and send back to them. After that they will send me a letter stating that my contracts with the MP are over. Happy Days are here again.

My advice to anyone in the same position as me is to get a lawyer to send them an official legal challenge to paying the maintenance fee. There really isn't much the MP can do. It's the same as renting an apartment. As long as you pay, you can stay. If you stop paying soon you'll be evicted. Are you then expected to keep paying the rent after being put out on the street? No. Of course for years I tried to sell it on the internet. Not one nibble.

So after all the paperwork...did you get any of your original investment back (purchase price)?

sailawaygirl wrote:

So after all the paperwork...did you get any of your original investment back (purchase price)?

Timeshare entities may (and some do) accept a "deedback in lieu of foreclosure", but there are few (if any) imaginable circumstances in which a timeshare company is ever going to willingly return money unless a court of appropriate authority and jurisdiction determines a contract to be outright invalid and ORDERS the return of funds, in whole or in part. Personally, I would imagine such a scenario to be particularly unlikley with a Mexican timeshare.

johnv339 wrote:

After I was done she said I'd be emailed two .pdf files for my wife and I to sign and send back to them. After that they will send me a letter stating that my contracts with the MP are over. Happy Days are here again.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that pdf file and for sure don't hold your breath waiting for a refund .... you signed a legal contract and after all these years you can't just merely null and void a signed and deeded contract just because you want to .... you evidently need to find another lawyer because he knows absolutely nothing about timeshare deeds.

You also have to realize that Mexican resorts also have their own lawyers.

jayjay wrote:

johnv339 wrote:

After I was done she said I'd be emailed two .pdf files for my wife and I to sign and send back to them. After that they will send me a letter stating that my contracts with the MP are over. Happy Days are here again.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that pdf file and for sure don't hold your breath waiting for a refund .... you signed a legal contract and after all these years you can't just merely null and void a signed and deeded contract just because you want to .... you evidently need to find another lawyer because he knows absolutely nothing about timeshare deeds.

I'm chuckling right now. It seems like certain people think it's impossible to challenge a big timeshare company like the Mayan Palace. Well, I thought I'd give it a try anyhow so I went to see my lawyer, who, by the way, I think I'll keep. He agreed that since I could no longer get the week or weeks I wanted, even if I tried booking 6 months out, the contract, from our viewpoint, was considered null & void. He also said he'd like my initial investment back, although he said don't expect that to happen, but, what the heck, we'll just throw that in there for good measure. He sent the email off and within 2 days I got a call at home from the Mayan Palace customer service. I explained to the lady the circumstances that led me to take this action. She listened and then said since my contract was paid up long ago and only yearly maint. fees were now due, that yes, I could end the contact. Of course I would no longer be able to book weeks since I'm giving up my membership (I could always try and go on someone else's timeshare). That's fine I said, I'm just trying to rid myself of this ongoing financial burden. Okay I was told, look for a .pdf file in your email inbox in a few days. it came as promised, myself and my wife signed it, sent photocopies of our drivers licences along with it. Shortly after a confirmation document was sent to us saying we are no longer Mayan Palace timeshare owners and have surrendered all rights and privileges as such. NO. I did not get my initial back. I wasn't expecting to, and it was in the legal language of the termination document that I would be losing that. Not a problem. I realize that some of you who read this will think I'm pulling your leg. Not to get political but "I must see Obama's birth certificate with my own eyes!", and even then it's most likely a forgery! You know who you are. For the rest of you. If you have paid off your initial investment and don't care about getting it back, you only want to stop paying your maint. fees, try what I did. SEE A LAWYER! Then have him or her email or send a letter that has their letterhead on it. By the way, I mentioned to the lady at the Mayan Palace that I had read several opinions on the internet that if you try to stop paying, all kinds of bad things will happen to you! They'll sue you, they'll destroy your credit, you'll be penalized, etc. You know what she did? She laughed! "oh, I don't know how these rumours get started. No, there is nothing wrong with trying to end a paid-up membership." There you have it. Any questions just reply to this posting.

I don't think you're pulling anyone's leg .... I believe you.

I think it was because you got a lawyer involved, which in the long run will pay for itself. However had you merely quit paying maintenance fees without your lawyer's letter then they would have come after you bigtime, no matter how much the lady laughed.

jayjay wrote:

I don't think you're pulling anyone's leg .... I believe you.

I think it was because you got a lawyer involved, which in the long run will pay for itself. However had you merely quit paying maintenance fees without your lawyer's letter then they would have come after you bigtime, no matter how much the lady laughed.

Very good jayjay. Yes, the lawyer's involvement is critical. It shows you're serious and sought a legal opinion before acting. Everyone should do the same if they feel the same way I do. Also, if I could have gotten the weeks I wanted when I contacted the resort, then I probably would have continued as a member. So what happened? Back in the late '90's and up to maybe 2003, I could my week or weeks in March booking as late as Jan. of that year. Then something changed. It got to the point where I got up at 1:00 AM EST the 1st of Sept. to book in March, using their interactive web booking site. Believe it or not the site would say "no rooms available". And that was at more than one of their resorts. So the next day I called (hard to get through) and spoke with a cust. service rep. He verified that indeed there were no rooms available. That can't be! Also, I work with people (also members) who looked at what was going on in much more depth than I did. They said a certain hotel chain would be offering rooms for the dates that I wanted even before the six month booking window that we're restricted to. When we signed our contracts we were told that "by law the resort can not oversell timeshare memberships". We truly believe that they have, by a lot. I also mentioned this to the customer service lady, the one I advised that I no longer wanted to be a member. She danced around that one, and yes, that did speed things up in my favor, no more had to be said on my part. .pdf files coming your way. Thanks for your past business, sorry to see you go, goodbye. I think a class action suit against those guys is in order. The first order of business should be "let's have a look at the books". Remember, a lease/ownership has to work both ways. They can't just keep taking your money and you get nothing in return, and I don't mean a cold weather guy like me having to make do with a week or two in August. You don't have to put up with shoddy treatment. Fight back.

Note that dan133 has been speaking about a Mexican timeshare, the Mayan Palace, where we are also owners. The contract there is a "Right to Use" document and it expires after a certain number of years if you don't upgrade or something (which restarts the clock at year #1). It is not a deed such as most of us have with a US company. Our current contract requires no maintenance fee if we come ourselves or if we simply do not use our "right to use" in a given year. We would need to pay MF if we rent out the week to someone else. This perk is age related, so don't get too excited. We never had occasion to ask if they would take it back, now that it is paid off in full and we owe no MF. They might love to resell it. MD

adahiscout wrote:

Note that dan133 has been speaking about a Mexican timeshare, the Mayan Palace, where we are also owners. The contract there is a "Right to Use" document and it expires after a certain number of years if you don't upgrade or something (which restarts the clock at year #1). It is not a deed such as most of us have with a US company. Our current contract requires no maintenance fee if we come ourselves or if we simply do not use our "right to use" in a given year. We would need to pay MF if we rent out the week to someone else. This perk is age related, so don't get too excited. We never had occasion to ask if they would take it back, now that it is paid off in full and we owe no MF. They might love to resell it. MD

How are you? Wow! "no maintenance fee if we come ourselves or if we simply do not use our 'right to use' in a given year." Again...wow! Well, I can say this. Myself and my co-workers who are members have no such deal, but believe me, I wish we did. Also, if we did I wouldn't be on this website at all. What would I have to complain about? Not going, fine, oh, we are going, fine...no maintenance fee! That is one sweet deal you have, but to be honest, I've never heard of such an arrangement before. No, we're obligated to fork over a maint. fee if we go, if we don't go, if someone goes as our guest, it doesn't matter. Pay yearly please under all scenarios. Plus, the fees are guaranteed to go up every year. They never miss a beat on that one! And, every five years we have to pay an additional maint. fee (double fee). If you want to ride it out, after 25 years you have the option of no longer being a member (it's in the contract language) or pay five maint. fees and start the process all over again for another 25 years. Hmm, thanks but no thanks. So, just curious, when in the world did you join the MP? I think they soon realized that the wording of your contract was probably not the way to do business. Thanks.

We bought into this particular contract, along with Grand Mayan, a few years ago. The deal was that MF went to half price when we turned 75 and dropped to 0 when we hit 77 if we used it ourselves or simply did not use it at all. More recently, they offered us a contract that gave some of these benefits to our kids after they paid MF at least 5 years (I think). The next day we ran into our salesman who told us that contract would no longer be offered, but we have it. Of course, it will take the equivalent for several MF's to equal our cost! Good deal or bad deal? Time will tell. MD

adahiscout wrote:

We bought into this particular contract, along with Grand Mayan, a few years ago. The deal was that MF went to half price when we turned 75 and dropped to 0 when we hit 77 if we used it ourselves or simply did not use it at all. More recently, they offered us a contract that gave some of these benefits to our kids after they paid MF at least 5 years (I think). The next day we ran into our salesman who told us that contract would no longer be offered, but we have it. Of course, it will take the equivalent for several MF's to equal our cost! Good deal or bad deal? Time will tell. MD