VILLA 15
We own Villa 15 for the first half of June, we purchased in 2005 and have stayed every year since then. We would like to communicate with other owners at Monte Cristo to get their views on the project and what they are being told about future development.
Don C.
Last edited by donc154 on Jun 29, 2008 04:43 PM
donc154 wrote:We own Villa 15 for the first half of June, we purchased in 2005 and have stayed every year since then. We would like to communicate with other owners at Monte Cristo to get their views on the project and what they are being told about future development.
Last we heard (Sept 07) that the golf course would be complete in Nov. 08.
Steve
Steve M.
We are in villa 15 as I type this. Talking to the Montecristo guys here and you get that resort golf course (the one open to montecristo owners) will open in 2009. Talking to Johni Orr just yesterday (Quivira head sales) at a wine-cheese social and I find that the private golf course will actually start first and will be followed by the resort course to now be finished in early 2010. So how many years has it been delayed now? and how long before it becomes fraud? Well hopefully the fact that the Ritz is involved will move things along.
stevem357 wrote:donc154 wrote:We own Villa 15 for the first half of June, we purchased in 2005 and have stayed every year since then. We would like to communicate with other owners at Monte Cristo to get their views on the project and what they are being told about future development.Last we heard (Sept 07) that the golf course would be complete in Nov. 08.
Steve
Kerry D.
Hello: We own #42 for the month of November. Bought 2006. Project completed July 2007. Haven't used unit yet.... Family medical emergencies kept us from using during entire month last year :-( . However, we are looking forward to entertaining family this year and PLAYING GOLF! Just found out the news that they haven't even started the course. Very disappointing news. We will be contacting the sales office to find out how they will compensate for golf expenses since we are now forced to use other facilities at higher rates and for the inconvenience.
Q=kerryd19] We are in villa 15 as I type this. Talking to the Montecristo guys here and you get that resort golf course (the one open to montecristo owners) will open in 2009. Talking to Johni Orr just yesterday (Quivira head sales) at a wine-cheese social and I find that the private golf course will actually start first and will be followed by the resort course to now be finished in early 2010. So how many years has it been delayed now? and how long before it becomes fraud? Well hopefully the fact that the Ritz is involved will move things along.
stevem357 wrote:donc154 wrote:We own Villa 15 for the first half of June, we purchased in 2005 and have stayed every year since then. We would like to communicate with other owners at Monte Cristo to get their views on the project and what they are being told about future development.Last we heard (Sept 07) that the golf course would be complete in Nov. 08.
Steve
Bonnie H.
My wife and I did own unit 15 until I was told it has been taken from us due to not making the maintenace fee payment on time. We just returned from there last night after doing an exchange through the Registry Collection. We went there, with friends, to see about selling the unit, as we have found out amlost all of the things we were told turned out to be false. Had a great time, until we talked to Kurt Murat who told us our contract had been canceled and we no longer had ownership. So, we lost all of our $86,000 fee. The golf course has yet to be started. We were told it would be completed by 2007 when we bought in 2006.
Lewis H.
I am so sorry to hear about your news. Villa 15 is a very nice unit. We purchased Villa 16, September in 2004. We were told many things that have not turned out. Our last owner update was with someone new, since the two guys that sold to us moved to Mayan Palace (I think). They were embarrassed to face their buyers every year with broken promises. The answer to our inquiries about broken promises is always " It is Mexico, what are you going to do about it?" MC has begun development of MC- II, which, in effect, doubles the size of the community, making it much less exclusive than the initial plan. This has also caused the golf course to be moved a mile west of the original plan. "No golf balls in your pool" is the new featured benefit. Only about 6 units are occupied during our visits, since owners either cannot rent them or trade their time to go elsewhere. Latest gof course promise is Dec. 09. At least the restaurant (Frida) is open during your week.
Steve M.
davidb645 wrote:My wife and I did own unit 15 until I was told it has been taken from us due to not making the maintenace fee payment on time. We just returned from there last night after doing an exchange through the Registry Collection. We went there, with friends, to see about selling the unit, as we have found out amlost all of the things we were told turned out to be false. Had a great time, until we talked to Kurt Murat who told us our contract had been canceled and we no longer had ownership. So, we lost all of our $86,000 fee. The golf course has yet to be started. We were told it would be completed by 2007 when we bought in 2006.
How late was your maintenance fee payment? They never contacted you to give you warning? There were no papers to sign to discontinue your ownership? This does not make sense to me. Are you saying that their policy is to take your ownership away when your maintenance fee is late? Hard to believe it works exactly like that.
Dianne
Dianne M.
Last edited by dmagliulo on Jan 31, 2009 11:05 AM
dmagliulo wrote:davidb645 wrote:My wife and I did own unit 15 until I was told it has been taken from us due to not making the maintenace fee payment on time. We just returned from there last night after doing an exchange through the Registry Collection. We went there, with friends, to see about selling the unit, as we have found out amlost all of the things we were told turned out to be false. Had a great time, until we talked to Kurt Murat who told us our contract had been canceled and we no longer had ownership. So, we lost all of our $86,000 fee. The golf course has yet to be started. We were told it would be completed by 2007 when we bought in 2006.How late was your maintenance fee payment? They never contacted you to give you warning? There were no papers to sign to discontinue your ownership? This does not make sense to me. Are you saying that their policy is to take your ownership away when your maintenance fee is late? Hard to believe it works exactly like that.
Dianne
Lewis H.
I was told in person that our contract had been canceled and there was nothing we could do about it. I asked when we were going to be told about this and I was sent down to Membership Services, and told the notice was mailed out, via regular mail, on December 29th. However, that notice has yet to arrive. However, I did get an emailed copy of the notice which has no date on it and doesn't reference which section of the contract they are using that allows this to happen. I think they are in violation of their own rules, as I think Article Seventeen requires such notice to be sent via Certified Mail. We were 2 year late in paying the fees when the letter was mailed. This is because we have been trying to sell the unit since a month after we bought it and finding out all of their promises were not correct. The company they told us to use has not sold one unit in the two year we have had it listed with them. Article Thirteen provides denial of time share use when payments are not up to date, which I understand. However, canceling the contract seem very harsh, especially when there was never any notice given that this would occur if payment was not received within a time certain. It was a very expensive lesson, and I don't think ANYONE should buy here without having their attorney read, and warn about, all of the fine print. There seems to be fine print to cover the sales people from all of the promises they make. And, having othave any law suit heard in Cabo gives them even more protction. It was especially hard for us, as neither of us are working now and we are still making payments on the $86,000 that we borrowed with nothing ot show for it.
Lewis H.
You mention still making payments on the $86,000 you borrowed. Did you cash out Pueblo Bonito with funds you borrowed from someone else, or were you using the PB financing?
I looked at our original documents. If yours are similar, at the time you bought the villa one of the documents you signed was a promissory note which gave Pueblo Bonito a "security interest" in your villa. If you did not cash out Pueblo Bonito, and that note is not paid in full, Pueblo Bonito still has a security interest in the villa. The Note says that they can take the villa back by judicial or non-judicial foreclosure if you are in default. It is to be interpreted under Mexican law. You would need to talk to an attorney who practices law in Mexico to get details on how their system works, and what notices they are required to give you if they foreclose on your fractional ownership. It would not surprise me if they tie all the agreements together, so that a default on maintenance payments triggers the default clause in the promissory note.
If you did cash out Pueblo Bonito, I don't see anywhere in our documents where they can take the villa back - only deny you the use of the villa. However, it is Mexico, and only an attorney familiar with their system can tell you how things really work down there.
Lisa G.
We paid the entire $86,000 off within 60 days which gave us a discount on the $90,000. The payments I am making are for money I borrowed on my Home Equity Line of Credit. I also read about their ability to to keep us from using the unit when we were behind in the payments. I fact, when we received our bill for this years maintenace fee, which was in November, it contained a highlighted clause stating, " We wish to remind you that you may not use, rent, loan or trade your fractional interest intervals unless your maintenance fee account is current and up to date." However, only a month later, they canceled our contract. They are saying that Declaration Twelve is what they are basing this decision on. This Declaration states, "The Provider or the User shall be able to rescind this same contract in any of the following cases: When the user or the provider do not fulfill any obligation charged to him under the same contract." I have talked to a couple attorneys, including one in Mexico, and I have been told that Pueblo Bonito is a huge company that is very well positioned in the area and no judge nor jury, in Cabo, will ever go against the hospitality industry. I had an attorney from here send them a letter regarding another issue, and Pueblo Bonito didn't even give a written response. However, I did get an email from the sales manager telling me that going to court in Cabo would only result in me paying a lot of attorney bills but would not do me any good. I think the best time to get an attorney involved is before signing any contract. I don't think too many attorneys would ever suggest signing one. We should have ran as soon as we read the clause stating, " We have been offered nothing else by our sales respresentative except what is stated in writing with at least one Montecristo Estates authorized signature. Under no circumstance will a verbal offer agreement cancel or supersede what is described in the sales document." In other word, if it isn't in writing it isn't true.
Lewis H.
You need to bring this up with Profeco the Mexican consumer protection agency. I referred to that agency another person who had also been treated harshly by MC. She got all of her money back. You can contact me for more info. But I would rather do it outside of this forum for obvious reasons.
Jeffrey W.
I saw that you purchased villa 16 and I am thinking of renting it this summer. The individual that is renting does not have any photos, so I wanted to be sure the unit is as beautiful as he tells me. I'm a little nervous renting sight unseen. Also, when you rent your unit, is there normally some sort of a contract, or is it a personal arrangement between you and the renter? Thanks! Just nervous coming all the way to Cabo and hoping I have a place!
Janet H.
I contacted PROFECO last week and they sent me a form to fill out. However, from talking with others it seems PROFECO is good about getting down payments back when the buyer wanted to get out before the 5 day back out period was up but can't do much if the entire payment was made. I am pretty sure the fine print is there to CYA for Pueblo Bonito. However, thanks for the help. On the brighter side, did you, or anyone, notice that the point for a villa at Montecristo Estates has been increased to 1400 a year?
Lewis H.
There are many photos available on Redweek.com All of the Villas are virtually identical. The view will vary greatly from villa to villa. We own # 16 in Sept. The view is probably better than all the others except # 12 which has no neighbor to the west. However, our pool will be somewhat more private than # 12. You may rent our 2009 weeks if you are interested. I have not rented before, so I do not know how the process works exactly.
stevem357
Steve M.
I did notice that the Montecristo is now worth 1400 credits in the Registry program. It used to be 1050 credits. They changed that in Nov. That is good news although my last deposit is still only worth the 1050 credits..........oh well.
I hope you can recover some of your losses; that is such a shame to be treated so harshly, especially in this economy. I am sorry for you having to go through this.
Dianne
Dianne M.
lol just got back from my owners meeting. As I look back at my posting over a year ago I see that once again the promise was made to have the golf course open by now and all they can show is some flags in the sand. I also found out that if you buy your unit on the resale market, the golf benefits do not transfer. I was told very clearly that everything transfers even the golf benefits. I will go to the Quivera meeting again tomorrow (as I did last year) just to get the new vision and hopefully get a sniff of the peyote the sales people are smoking.
But here are some things from my owners meeting: Q: Now that Phase 1 is completely sold, how many units were held back by the resort. A: ...long drawn out BS but eventually he showed me the current PH 1 sales book and admitted that about 10% remain open.
Q: Of that 10%, is the resort putting in their $300 per day maintenance fees just like we are? A: Well we have to hold some back in case there is a maintenance issue with one of the other units. (I took that as a NO)
Q: over 10%? And do the owners then own those in common since we are all paying the maintenance in perpetuity? And they will never be sold? A: Yes, No, No
Q: How do we know that this is the true cost of maintenance. A: (pulls out a book of golf club membership dues) Look at what all these other clubs charge for dues.
Q: But I didn't ask about golf club dues for a golf club that doesn't exist. I asked about Maintenance costs? A: It is truly that expensive. Believe me! (Obviously I don't believe him)
He then proceeded to tell me that I could pay another $50K and trade my current weeks for Phase 2 which have an additional 5 or 6 feet between them and better ammenities inside. For some reason I didn't even find that humorous. I simply and very calmly replied "Let's see if you can ever deliver what you promised years ago. Then we can talk about more money". Later, after I had left, he came running outside and said, "By the way Mr. Davis, since you bought on the after market, the golf does not transfer to you. but if you spend just $7000 and by our cheapest timeshare, you will get the 50% off (on a nonexistant golf course)". I told him, there was not enough koolaid in the world.
in other news, I did purchase a year round freehold in another preconstruction resort in the Carribean where you are not in competition with the resort and they have a Gary Player golf course that will actually be built prior to the rest of the resort opening and all like units share in the rental proceeds. like $2000 annual maintenance fees and everything else comes out of the resorts 50% of the rental proceeds they take in. 50% is high but no taxes, they maintain everything else from their cut, and you still get 2 weeks in the high season and 2 weeks in the low season to use as you will. This one is definitely billed as an investment vehicle so that the resort is not dependant on the banks and they tell you that up front (good thing as things have turned out this year). I am not a sales guy for them and I don't get anything. In fact, I think it is already sold out. But if you want to check it out search for The Marquis Estates in St. Lucia.
Kerry D.
Last edited by kerryd19 on Aug 11, 2009 03:47 PM
Nothing really changed at all with Quivera from last year except the prices have come down. Last year I am sure they told me the prices were anywhere from 5 - 19 M $. This year they have sold 3, are building 1 and 3 pending and they are 3 - 7 million.
New is the fact that Montecristo is now part of Quivera. MC sales guy Alberto at owners meeting tells me the plan is to have a single common Fideocommisso (sp?) trust for all owners across the resort AND this is GREAT (his words) for us because they are inpertuity meaning noone has to renew at 50 or 100 years (which excludes of course time share people but includes fractionals for MC1 and 2).
Many people misunderstood the 50/100 year thing at MC as a right to use that terminates in 50 or 100 years but it never was that. The 50 or 100 years was just how often the owner would have to renew with the bank trust. Bob, new sales guy over at Quivera says this is crazy and the Quivera home sales on the beach as well as the Ritz Carlton Residence (really condos) above Pacifica (which are also new this year) will each have their own individual bank trust. Also Bob tells me, look for even more condos in the places where they were planning homes further back from the beach also behind the residences and Pacifica which seems to be new.
This is the odd case where I really don't think either sales guy is intentionally lying. Just somewhat clueless.
Cheese and wine seemed very similar to last year but what was different was that only myself and one other group of 4 people (all of them together) attended this particular wednesday. And, as it happens, these people just happen to own the two weeks in villa 15 right after me in August (they are in a different villa for the first part of the month). So they very kindly invited me down to their villa for dinner that evening as they had caught several tuna and were grilling that evening. I may just become a fisherman after all:)
Kerry D.