Organize group protest/damages for not getting golf course completed in timely manor

Fellow villa owners --

Here it is Aug 2008 and the golf courses should have been completed by now. I bought my unit May 2005 and Montecristo some MC villas had been completed. Presumed that they would be completed in a couple of years at the latest. Gave lame excuse of surprise government environmental impact study caused delay. of eighteen months.

The success of the villa project as a resale or rental or for enjoyment is greatly dependent on the golf course especially for those that purchased weeks where school is normally in session which is most of year. I see the MC villas appeal to golfers as I see a bunch of golf buddies renting it out for a week of golfing together or a corporation as I tax write off and being used to entertain clients on golf trips.

MC/Coppele definitely owes compensation for this extreme delay. I have run into numerous people who have expressed the MC staff/salesmen their dissatisfaction with the delay in installing the golf course but all we get is a lame excuse.

Post of this thread if you feel the same way. Currently the MC threat us like yokels on this matter. Time to get some respect and what we paid for.

Spent a week in mid Aug 08. Was GUARANTEED that the golf course would be finished by MAR 09. Looking out into the desert, I found it hard to believe them!

Thank you for starting this post, I completely agree with the idea of expressing our dissatisfaction to MC for the numerous delays with the construction of the golf course, you can count us in.

We purchased our ownership in October of 2006, thanks.

tony116 --

When you were there in August did you see any progress on golf course at all?

Since the courses won't be done in time for my stay (11/16-23) can anyone recommend a nice golf course relatively close to Montecristo? Thanks

I was there 8-15 Aug 08. As we were driving in, I could see minimal construction activity occurring in the area of the golf course. The people greeting me on are arrival were the ones telling me that the course would be done by next year. Mind you, they are just the worker bees and are probably being told this (and they actually believe it) by higher ups. When I had my "meeting" with the agent that sold me the villa the year before, I mentioned that I had been told of the completion date of Spring of 09 and that I HIGHLY doubted it. He seemed very surprised that I didn't think it would be done because "so much has already been completed". What he was talking about, I have no idea, because if your building a championship golf course, they are a long ways from done. Did you also know that there will be two 18 hole courses and the MC owners will NOT be able to play the course closer to the ocean? We will be ALLOWED to play only the inland course. I hid my annoyance well when he mentioned this small detail. I'm with you on any protest! Tony

I was at MC in July. There was NO work being done on the golf course. The only work was on the "New MC II" area. I was told that they would "definitely" be ready by Oct. '09 but no one would put it in print. I discussed the misrepresentation of the course location with the sales manager and he said the only ones that would or could do anything was either of the two Coppeles. I called and e-mailed to get an appointment with either and I was told that I could not contact them. "They do not talk to owners" because they were "too busy". I sent another e-mail asking if I would get any compensation for the "relocation of the courses" or have my address switched to another villa for at least a view of the golf courses and i have not heard from anyone. Note: With the "new plans", both courses will have holes on the beach if they ever develop the courses. The courses will be on the East and West sides of the Lighthouse mountain.

Thanks All for the updates even though bad news --

Not putting in the golf courses as promised greatly diminishes the value of our properties. Way beyond them giving us a comparable discount on meals equal to the discount on playing a few rounds of golf. What is interesting is how they are ignoring putting the golf courses when they would help increase sales of their villas and occupancy of the Ritz Carlton Hotel.

Watcha gonna due? Nothing us peon villa owners can do but to bad mouth the resort on the Internet. But then you diminish the value of your property if you want to sell or rent it until they build the golf courses.

Ernesto's much younger brother was managing the MC project and met with him several times back in the first year 2005 when he was up at my villa because of the severe leaking problems in my villa and the problem with falling rocks onto the road after a heavy rain. We had an office in the MC office back then. Couldn't make it to my villa this year (September) so couldn't complain.

Any ideas other than setting up a nasty website exposing the Coppels and MC for reneging on their promise of putting in the golf courses in a timely manner?

Marty

Go to attached website to read the latest press announcements about the Jack Nicklaus development at Quivira, which includes two oceanfront courses (one private and one resort) as well as 200 homes. The 10/6/08 article states that golf course construction will begin in 2009 with expected completion in 2010.

Also - note that the "Quivira" development includes the Jack Nicklaus Golf Club, the Ritz Carlton and Pacifica - no mention of the MonteCristo Villas.

The good news is that there is confirmation on a Jack Nicklaus website that there will be golf courses

Has anyone been to Cabo lately - how is the current economic crisis affecting Cabo? What info are you getting from Dirk and other sales persons about the MonteCristo development?

http://www.nicklaus.com/design/cabopacifica/100608.php

Ask Dirk??? You have to be kidding. He is the consumate salesman. Here is his personal email: dirkmeyer@prodigy.net.mx Send him a note but don't tell him where the email address came from. I visited the place this spring while staying at the Playa Grande. I barely could get in the gate. Good luck playing golf there during any week/month but your own. Why should any of us think that the Montecristo would be any different than a timeshare with all of the promises? If it was in the US, maybe we could cause some sort of a stir over broken promises but Mexico with the weallthy Coppelas, ha. Many of us owners would love to not own at the Montecristo; not because it isn't awesome but because the cost was high and the rental and resale is low. No whining... My opinion is to keep our issues between the owners and PBonito. Running anything down in public is bad for all of us.

I understand everyone's frustrations as I am in the same situation. But, annoucing your frustration on a website that advertises rentals isn't smart if you want this to be a desirable property to visit.

We took my entire family (parents, sister & her family, our family) in May and had an awesome vacation. The entire staff went above and beyond to make our stay enjoyable. The accommodations are great and our limo driver even stopped at the Costco on the way from the airport so we could fully stock the villa for the week. My parents, who have traveled the world, said it was the nicest timeshare they had even been too and are planning to visit it with friends in 2009. Our daughter got an ear infection and the dr on call at the resort visited our villa twice and they even picked up a prescription for us in town and delivered it right to the vila.

So yes, there are frustrations about the courses. We too are ready to play. But I think Jack Nickelaus' latest newest about opening in 2010 should be encouraging and remember, this is Mexico and a different time clock. Enjoy the property...we did! Oh, and we did rent one week last year successfully for about $400 per night by advertising on the internet.

Hmmmmm, wachagonnado?!

Bottomline is that by delaying (if ever) building the golf courses as promised albeit they never said when they would be built I purchased my MC villa in May 2005 and here it is Oct 2008 over three years later and they haven't even started constructing them that the value of our villas has been greatly lessened from what they would be if they were in operation. Also I'm looking at these half-off the price for rounds of golf that are worthless. What is a reasonable length of time for the golf courses to have been completed. They should have been completed within two years of the date I purchased my villa.

Granted the villas are awesome but they would be even more awesome and worth a hell of a lot more if the golf courses were in place.

Value of MC villa: I have the first two weeks in September. I banked the second week with The Registry Collection more than 90 days in advance of the first day of my scheduled weeks. An emergency arose the week before I was to use the first week precluding me from using my first week. I called The Registry Collection to see if I could bank the first week even though it was inside the 90 day minimum. They said I could if there was somebody who requested my week at MC villa. They checked for requests and said there was no possibility as they had ELEVEN MC villas banked and unrequested for that week ahead of mine that had been banked for over ninety days! Scary!!

I had been checking Redweek for three months prior as I was researching the viability of selling my units here as well as renting them out in future years. There were two villas listed both up in the most desirable top two rows. They worked their way down from a more than reasonable $300/$400 per night rental to to barely covering the daily maintenance fee and still did not rent out. Really scary!!!

Sales of MC villas. Nada on Redweek as far as I can see so haven't bothered to list mine (the real estate collapse in the USA has necessitated me selling my MC villa). I see the golf courses as being invaluable as far the saleability of the MC villas.

And do I believe that the are going to start building the golf courses in 2009. Naahhh. They said they were going to start building them any day now back when I bought the units in 2005. Ditto in every year and every time I went to Cabo (also have other timeshares in Cabo).

Hmmmmm, whatamIgonnado? Stay tuned.

Marty

I too have been waiting for the golf course(s) for a few years now. But since resale was mentioned above I was wondering does anyone know why the Sales office located at Pueblo Bontio Sunset Beach doesn't list re-sales?

Because they want to sell new units. Can you imagine if they listed resales at a much lower price than the new units. There business is selling new units just like a housing developer in the States.

I agree that the sales office as their first priority should be to sell their existing inventory but leaving their owners high and dry is not a good idea either. Smart buyers know that, for everything they buy, someday it must be sold. And the ability to sell it for a good price says a lot about the property itself. Life events happen which would necessitate a owner needing to put thier fractional up for sale. In my opinion Monte Cristo would be much better off taking better care of thier owners by personally assiting in resale. This would probably attract more buyers.

They will probably assist in resales when they are built out.

Senior Copel-Kelly is making a big mistake by waiting so long (if ever) to put the golf course in. The standard practice is for a developer to put the golf course in first and then sell the lots/house along and around it. A golf course done right is a big selling feature and much more so if people can see an actual course versus a artist's rendering or a just a written promise (in my case). I know my villa would be much more rentable if there was a golf course.

Marty

I agree. Golf course completion is the key to all of this. What can I/we do? Any ideas anyone?

We purchased originally three years ago and were given "an exclusive golf membership only available to the first 50 owners" as an incentive to buy. Golf course? Nada. Membership Nada. We arrived at Monte Cristo this month and were given an "Update" and encouraged to trade into the new phase of Monte Crist for only $50k more. We were told that Jack Nicklaus would have the first course completed this summer '09 and given an excerpt from the Jack Nicklaus website about his involvement. I went to the Nicklaus website. Guess what? According to Jack the course is scheduled to be open the summer 2010! The course is owned and controled by Jack Nicklaus and Ritz Carlton for use of their joint development. Monte Cristo is not even mentioned. I guess if were lucky we will be "guests" and not members. With the downturn in the economy and Mr. Coppel's recent divorce I don't think he has the money to build another course for Pueblo Bonito and Monte Cristo. I know I'm not going to hold my breath.

First 50 to buy get unlimited golf membership. You are getting screwed more than even though I had to be one of the first 50 but was only promised half off rounds of golf plus maybe a round or two free.

Why would somebody want to spend another $50k to "upgrade" to the next phase of MC as the next phase is way down the mountain (or is there something I don't know) and seems like more of a "downgrade" ... and for a whole lot of dinero mas.

What will be interesting is if we even get any privileges at the Ritz Carlton course.

Thanks for the update.

Marty,

We go to Cabo, we use MC, and we love it. But...

I totally agree with everything that has has been discussed on this topic. We are all very frustrated about the lack of communication from the MC group. We have been lied to, promised the moon, and been taken advantage of. The original purchase made sense as long as everything that we were promised fell into place.Most likely, several of the owners of MC were prior Pueblo Bonito owners and were extremely satisfied with their past experiences and saw no reasons why the glorious expectations of the MC project wouldn't come through. Now nothing is working. No golf course, no owner's club house,we can't rent, we can't sell. We're always in the dark.

In spite of all the doom we forget that , as owners , we collectively could make an impact by using the resources within us. We pay a fortune in maintenance fees. We represent a large group of unhappy customers and we should question how Pueblo Bonito would react to negative statements in the U.S. about doing business with them. Look at the name of their present project- it has no association with Pueblo Bonito. They KNOW that ,without American $, they have no future sales.Aren't there any attorneys amongst all of the owners who can help in this battle? What are the our rights and legal options as American owners in Mexico? What happens if all of us collectively decide that we won't pay our maintenance fees? What legally could they respond with? Do any owners have these answers? My guess is that they are banking that the owners of MC are so spread out over the U.S. and Canada and lack any communication amongst them. Have you noticed that we have no owner's association /directory to help us keep communicating?However, as intelligent community of owners we know the power of communication and through our computer voice we can unite and voice a very strong opinion. We have paid a fortune and received a lot of lip service.We all bought into something that we love and enjoy but its been too long with too many open promises left unfulfilled and no direct answers as to why? On top of this, they still expect us to pay increases without fulfilling their obligations.Anyone who can affort Montecristo is not a fool. Why have we allowed them to treat us as if we were??? Howard