Has anyone purchased from Vallart Gardens?

Has anyone purchased from Joe Potter at Vallarta Gardens? I bought a "residence club membership" from Joe Potter and he promised the company would buy back my other time shares and also provide rental income by renting out the unit at . He did a classic bait and switch where the company that provided a guaranteed sale price in 300 days was another company. The compliance officer said they don't use that company as referenced in the small print one of the many documents I signed. Joe, the company salesman also sold an annuity from Swiss Alliance Group. Talked to the compliance officer, Cynthia Gonzales, and she said she was going to have the onsite Swiss Alliance Group person discuss it with me. No emails or messages so far. I asked for a policy number and nothing. Joe also said the company uses Remax and Stewart Title, yet when I signed the documents I didn't see any reference to either one. Joe knew I work in Afghanistan where it is very dangerous and he said he was a veteran as well. Yet he gave a very warm and sincere perception that was all a lie. no emails or responses from him. He and Vallarta Gardens got their money and are looking for more "members". Be very careful. They're coming up with new ways to get "members".

Much to my regret, I purchased a ‘fractional residence club ownership’ in mid-October, 2012. As I read your posting, I was amazed at how closely my experience paralleled yours.....just different salesmen. The Swiss Alliance contact that Ms. Gonzales referred to is Dan Saur who has been hired by the new ownership of Vallarta Gardens as the onsite manager of sales.....he was previously employed by Swiss Alliance. Even if you were to be provided an annuity contract, this would be no guarantee that the document would be worth the paper it is printed on. Vallarta Gardens is an older resort that went broke in the last couple of years when the economy tanked. It is being reinvented by a new sales group who is referencing and claiming among other things: they partners with Remax (this is for the credibility factor; VanCom Marketing Strategies out of Houston, Texas will market your timeshare (for an astronomical amount as I have discovered) that will in essence pay for your timeshare...(and they will for an upfront fee of approximately $1100 with no guarantee of a rental....'if the market is right'). I had a timeshare I was told would be used as trade-in value on the Vallarta Gardens 'Fractional Ownership' at a price that I agreed to (and was impressed by). Later, as I was home reviewing all associated documentation (and away from the 'high pressured' belly of the sales war room), I realized that there absolutely no reference, mention, nor barter value included for the time share I have owned for some time. Whatever that was about, I haven’t figured out yet. I have since had to pay the maintenance fee for the older timeshare since I have been back from Mexico. I did not plan on keeping two vacation plans and all related fees but find I have no recourse. Laws need to change for consumer protection. Several pieces of paper are put in front of customers to sign in rapid succession as the salesperson is saying...'remember this is what we agreed to'. Only, in a deep and introspective review of all related sales documents does a customer see that basically the contract(s) virtually cover and actually dispute many claims made and put forth by the salesperson. I purchased my 'fractional ownership' in October 2012. And, from statements I overheard, I believe this sales team has recently been put together and is just gearing up to repackage and 'resale' these properties. So, many more unsuspecting customers are on the verge of being sold a 'dubious' bill of goods. Call Ms. Gonzales and request to speak to Dan Saur. Tell him you want the Swiss Alliance Annuity that you were promised and will supposedly pay the cost of your purchase in full (in whatever number of years you were told it would payoff). You were promised this insurance in the sales pitch and the seller needs to provide what he promised. The hope was that you would ‘forget’ the annuity thereby allowing them to recoup even more money from your sale. I received a call from a Swiss Alliance customer representative on Tuesday evening after returning home of Saturday….supposedly to welcome me aboard and to verify beneficiary information. It was only a week later while balancing my checkbook that I realized that a debit for the cost of the annuity as well as the related transactional fee was made from my account almost wiping all funds from my bank account. In retrospect, it struck me as odd (perhaps even shady) that the lady never informed me that the debit was going to be made immediately following our conversation. I actually, and incorrectly as it turned out, thought the cost of the annuity was included in the down payment I made and the remaining and ongoing payments till payoff. Annuities are the latest tool in enticing unsuspecting customers into sales agreement for what used to be called ‘time shares’ but now due to the bad publicity associated with the term, are being labeled as ‘fractional ownerships’. I wonder.....how is it that so many offers and promises can be misrepresented verbally during sales discussion(s) by resort salespeople and yet be completely nullified in the documents that are pushed rapidly in front of customers during the signing phase….. leaving one with so little redress? This seems to be the habitual and continued platform for ‘time share’ sales.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I did get my Annuity. Looks authentic and everything including the address and phone number when you google it. The website looks a little wierd but regardless, I'm not banking on it. It is amazing how people like Joe Potter and Cynthia Gonzalez from Vallarta Gardens can get away with stuff like this. I really trusted Joe and he really seemed sincere, but the emails stopped as soon as they got all my money. If you didn't fully pay for the time share I'd recommend you cut your losses and not pay anymore payments. There is a good forum about Coco Sunset Vacation club whee Joe used to work in Costa Rica.

Only thing we can do is blot it on the web about Vallarta Gardens to warn others of Joe Potter and Cynthia Gonzalez

Contact Mexican timeshare solutions, maybe they can help. Good luck.

To Paula and any others who have been scammed by Vallarta Gardens go our deepest condolences and commiserations. We, too, wanted to believe what they were selling last July. We suspended our normal skepticism and common sense as we signed the same flurry of papers Paula describes. Dan and Cynthia were among the cast of sleazy characters, but we worked with Jimmy and Orlando as their willing marks. I am sure there are other players in this troupe and it really doesn't matter whether these slimeballs even use their real names. They have all sold their souls and consciences for the perverse kicks and tainted proceeds of their slick sales pitches.

It must be some sick sense of power over those of us who are attracted to Mexico's beauties and mostly genuine people. Orlando brought his wife and pictures of his mom and kids to our "celebration" dinner after we signed up. We brought our children and our granddaughter.

In retrospect, we know now that we were dealing with a two-faced heartless swindler who later was to call us "the F---ING Ericksons" in an email to Cynthia. Orlando was playing just a bit too fast and loose for his own good. His various reassurances and explanations rang a sour note even while we were still excited with visions of making Vallarta Gardens a base for family gatherings. He ended up being so stupid that he mistakenly sent us an internal email between himself and Cynthia using some of the most foul language imaginable.

While that email removed all doubt about his insincerity, we had already given Vallarta Gardens our recision letter and asked American Express not to honor the nearly $14,000 down payment charge. In a fortuitous bit of timing, we got phone calls from Swiss Alliance and Omnicorp (the timeshare resellers) on the day we got back home, asking for credit card numbers to process for their services (not included in our original deal ?!). That started alarm bells going off for us and we finally did the research we should have done before signing. We sent our notice of recision on the evening of the fifth day after signing, supposedly the last possible day allowed.

I could continue with the uncomfortable details of our dealings trying to get out of the deals we had made, but I won't. It is actually painful to relive. Until three months later when we finally got the word from AMEX that we had won our dispute to not pay, we had been sitting on pins and needles.

Unfortunately, we appear to be the lucky ones. We have read too many stories of people who have not gotten any of their money back and are still facing financial fiascos. Our hearts go out to them in a much different way because we have been through at least some of the same ordeals.

If there are any people out there who are considering a purchase at Vallarta Gardens (or many of the other resorts where similar scams are operating), DON'T do it. If you have made the same mistake we made and already signed the papers, DON'T PAY A PESO MORE! I question whether these scammers are really ready to come after you in the U.S. I might be wrong, but the fear factor is likely to be the major factor the scammers have on their side. If a creditable collection agency comes after you in the U.S., then maybe you should pay attention, but until they do, don't continue throwing your money away.

My step-daughter had the best comment on this whole affair when she asked my wife, "Mom, didn't you always tell us that if it's too good to be true, it really is too good to be true?" There are other dreams we will be able to share with our family. Thankfully they won't have to go through the nightmare of Vallarta Gardens like we have.

Check out my response under username sraln .

Response I made to srain posting on Redweek.com I read your posting with interest…..especially where you mentioned Orlando bringing his wife to your celebration dinner along with pictures of his Mom and Kids. During my interaction with him, he was planning (the very next weekend actually…) a renewal of his wedding vows after twelve years on the beach to be followed with a sit-down dinner with family and invited friends. Now, I wonder if any of his glowing references to the upcoming event were true. Actually, this approach is clever....it truly draws those who are vested in the 'goodness of people' into his conspiratorial sales approach. I count my investment in this enterprise as lost and to me as a new retiree, it is substantial and very painful. Since I heard statements to the effect that Dan Sauer; Orlando Ramirez; Joe Potter; and others had just come together as a team working under a new buyer of what was a bankrupt Vallarta Gardens, this new tam cannot possibly be in business too long with the swindles they are committing. The money I paid for the Swiss Alliance annunity they purported would cover the cost of the property in 25 years is surely lost; the offer to buy back the property in two years (that was made to me) will never be honored; .....how can these enterprises commit such fraud and not be held accountable. Several of these players came from Mayan Palace – (downtown Puerto Vallarta harbor area) employment to work for the new owner. While I understand if it is not written in the contract, it is not binding, ............at least I now know from reading previous postings made by other scammed buyers ...................that I did hear VG is a partner with ReMax.....(wonder if ReMax would acknowledge such a relationship); I was also told that a timeshare I already owned with another timeshare vendor would be 'traded-in' on my Vallarta Gardens purchase (Orlando supposedly even looked up my timeshare and quoted me the dollar figure that would be honored in the deal); and Orlando went into great detail in outlining how my 'fractional ownership' could be rented out at a price each year that would in essence pay for the cost of ownership. Someone needs to go in with a hidden microphone and validate the sales approach being used by this sales team so that this whole outfit could be prosecuted. I have recently been contacted by Vann Com Strategies from Houston, Texas telling me that for a one-time upfront fee of $1,200, they would rent my Vallarta Gardens purchase for ten years. Apparently, Vallarta Gardens is no longer using World Residence club nor Omnicorp for marketing as they were up until October 2012. Everything about this new Vallarta Gardens sales team seems to be phony, contrived, and a moving target. Due to their association with VG, I would imagine Van Comm Strategies is also a scam. My question……why haven't the laws caught up to protect innocent buyers against such unscrupulous business entities? I got so caught up in the 'beauty' of Vallarta Gardens and the seemingly goodness that Orlando Ramirez portrayed, that it never occurred to me to do an internet search to see if they were a bunch of crooks. It would seem impossible that there are no avenues of recourse for unsuspecting vacationers caught up by the natural beauty of a development ……. never thinking of ‘scam artists’ to be so emotionally and financially abused. I know there was a five day window of rescission…..but the importance of this legal avenue doesn’t impact unsuspecting individuals who are truly being duped by such industry professional. They have rights…..their customers don’t. No, I didn't do business with Joe Potter, but I did with his brother....... names seem to be irrelevant. It seems the only ones benefiting from this organization and making dollars are the upfront people who successfully scam unsuspecting tourists just visiting Mexico for badly needed rest and relaxation. Since this organization is making so many false claims, how can they continue to get away with it and why do customers have no recourse?

It's a hackneyed phrase, but I feel your pain. We too are in that same age bracket (my wife is already retired and I have a few more to go) and the money we could have lost would have been a big loss. It sickens me to hear that you feel you have no recourse about getting your money back at this point. In the event that you still have payments owing to these crooks, DON'T PAY THEM A PESO! Document how they have swindled you and there shouldn't be a court anywhere that would prosecute you for non-payment.

Unfortunately, there are too many who have lost their "investment," and have no hope of getting anything back. American Express was our saviour and did not choose to pay the thieves. But once they have your money, I fear it is gone.

I agree that there should be some governmental agency that could work to protect consumers on BOTH sides of the border. The problem is a thorny one, frought with international relations, juggling other priorities, as well as the difficult task of catching these slimy salespeople who know how to keep ahead of whatever few authorities who could make a difference.

What a hard way to learn the meaning of "Buyer Beware!"

The more I think about this ugly situation, the more I wonder how I could use our experience to to help prevent this from happening to others.

There is a Mexican governmental agency (I forget the name) that is reported to offer some help, but as we checked into it, the reports of what this agency could/would do were disheartening. It sounded like a small bureaucratic office that was either overwhelmed with their task, underfunded, or maybe even set-up to give the appearance that the Mexican government cared. It also sounded like, for an American in the U.S., that it would be very difficult (working with a Spanish-speaking lawyer), expensive, and time-consuming to fight these guys.

I imagine that the Mexican government has little incentive to publicize the scams among those who might fall prey to them. It is likely easier to try to keep this problem quiet and to not alarm unsuspecting tourists and dampen the tourist economy.

As for our own government, I imagine that it can't unilaterally control commerce inside a foreign country. Our courts would have no jurisdiction there. Our FBI could investigate the shell companies supposedly doing business in the U.S. (like OmniCorp and Swiss Alliance), but my guess is that doing so is either a low priority or extremely difficult, or probably both.

Is there anyone out there who has an idea whether this is being pursued by anyone, be it in the government or private sector? I notice that at the bottom of this page is an ad for "Ask a Scam Investigator! A Fraud Examiner Will Answer Now!" by Answer.com/scam-examiners. Possibly authentic, but who knows? At this point, I have such a jaundiced outlook that I am suspicious that someone purporting to help people with fraud allegations is running a scam on those people who have already been duped by the swindlers.

"Caveat emptor!" Buyer beware!

The Mexican office that supposedly intervenes on behalf of visitors when they feel they have been scammed is the Perfecto's Office. As I have searched forums and elsewhere on the internet for references or mention of this organization, I did find some comments on www.complaints.com which seem to be a generic place for making complaints against anything.

A lot of irritant activity has happened to unsuspecting customers in the past several months....all since the new sales team composed of Orlando, Miquel, Dan, Cynthia, and others that have been alluded to in various postings seemed to have started working together for the new owner of the bankrupt property. Wonder what has happened to previous owners and their rights?. This property was developed at least ten years ago as a time share property so there has to be 'old owners' somewhere. I have seen a posting on one site where a buyer had made a substantial investment in early August and was told by the (new) Dan Sauer/Orlando Ramirez team that his purchase/ownership would not be honored since the property was under a new property mangement comapny and a new marketing company (OminCorp previously, now using Vann Com Marketing Strategies).

It will take me a while, but I intend methodically to make sure that several profile organizations do become aware of this company and its methodology. Not all timeshare companies operate like this company does. I'm sure that ARDA would love to know about their tactics. The manner in which this company is operating should irritate the time share/fractional share companies that do operate in an ethical manner.

I have had a BlueGreen timeshare for years and the company has always operated in a highly professional manner. They have several departments and advertised telephone numbers for each; Vallarta Gardens is not even answering their phones a lot of the time and forget customer service.

You were astute to have recognized so early into your venture that something was amiss and to have been able to recoup your investment.

I may never receive financial relief but I will do what I can with the help of the internet in notifying professional and legal entities of the wrongs being committed by this sales team.

Paula,

My wife reminds me that the Mexican entity I was trying to remember is called "Profeco," not "Perfecto." She says that it has opened an office in Puerto Vallarta and should be findable easily in net search. It is important to lodge complaints with them since they eventually post the names of properties with complaints.

I agree that this particular group of scammers seems to have worked together only in the past several months. We dealt with them in July and when we researched VG on several scam watch sites, we didn't find any specific complaints about VG at that time. What was chilling to us was the similarity between the complaints we did read about at places like the Mayan Palace, Villa del Palmar, and the Grand Miramar and the tactics we found at VG. At that point, I don't think the crew at VG had been operating long enough to have complaints surface.

Of course Orlando was quick to assert that "anyone can put dirt out on the web." When I pointed out that I had found allegations of fraud against Swiss Alliance, he explained it away as a crooked competitor who had posted lies to make them look bad.

It does seem that the former timeshare owners of VG before it went bankrupt should exist and be pretty upset. How to find them and how they could help are mysteries to me.

To us, it seems that the best remedy for some type of action lies in Profeco, as flawed as it might be. There are other Internet groups like "TUGBBS.COM" that could be useful in publicizing complaints. As much as we'd really rather not continue to relive the whole situation, I think we will make efforts to post our experience and advice for others who might benefit from it. If we can help you specifically in any way, please let us know. I am reluctant to share email addresses in this forum, but we could find a way to continue corresponding.

Best of luck!

I would like to speak directly with you and your wife concerning guidance on the VG issues we have discussed. I will post email or telephone number if need be.

Paula,

Send your contact info to utlars@gmail.com, don't post it here, OK?

Yes we purchased from VG. How did we fall for it, why were we so stupid?? here is the timeline. On Christmas Eve we had dinner with Tim, (Project director) his wife, his son Chris, his wife and child and two other friends . We all sat around the dinner table, we prayed together and ate a wonderful dinner with who we thought were friends. On Dec 26th on Tim and Chris' invitation we went to VG to see the project. Tim dumped us onto Orlando Raminez. Orlando was and always has been a fast talker, full of "charm and smiles" and we have known him for years from Paradise Village sales office where we have time shares. Orlando told us derogatory things about the future of Paradise Village which scared us. We were concerned about our memberships. At the end of the day yes, he sold us. We went home (back to Paradise Village) and gave our heads a shake, "what did we do?" We then went back the next day to cancel this contract. Nope...... no can do, all we could do was "down sell" which we did. Home again we again went back after finding we could in fact cancel with a full refund, but no, we were introduced to the most obnoxious man Bob Stockton, who not only was a mean person he threatened to have me put into a Mexican Prison!!!!! We left there beaten, unhappy and still without our 11+ deposit! We now have Profeco working for us, 2 lawyers and others. we did everything right, tried to get our deposit back. This place should be shut down, investigated, and these men should be put in prison, not us!!! I must add that my husband and I are seniors from Canada, we had the flu and were on many drugs, I am certain our minds were not working correctly. Do they care, NO. Be aware!!!

Good for you for quickly responding to your concerns regarding your Vallarta Gardens experience. You need to direct you legal support to this page and the comments that appear here. The comments posted on this page should speak volumes to anyone trying to determine the credibility of the sales team. Sorry for your experience.

I just purchased a studio unit from Vallarta Gardens that is under construction. I was told clearly that the annuity would be charged separately, which it was. They purchased 3 of my 5 weeks for the next five years UPFRONT, and I only had to pay the remainder for the unit. I have been to many timeshare presentations, and I felt this was a fair deal. Now all that remains to be seen is if I can actually use it as they portrayed. I will update after I try and use my two weeks for this year.

Update: found everything the promised in the sales pitch was untrue when I finally was able to contact Cynthia (after getting several numbers that were not in service and then emailing and getting no response). Asked about renting a unit anyway and was told to email her the information, which I did. I never heard back from her. Am currently disputing payment with my credit card company since the annuity and the resort appear to be a scam. I have owned timeshares in the past and have not run into these issues. Never received a deed or title proving ownership of my "fractional time" either.

It will be interesting to hear about your experience using your timeshare. Hope you don't get placed in a situation where you have to share your villa with others.

Paula,

Hi ,we also purchased at VG on Feb 20 .We have owned T.S for many years and have been to lots of presentations over the years ,so how did we fall for this one ? We purchased 2 bdr. and what we thought was 4 wks. of fractional with deed and we were told it is real estate with opportunity for resale in 4 years with Reimax . We also have not received a deed and tittle on paper. We also had our old T.S properties traded in as equity which they then took off the price of the purchase,but now that we are at home we see that the original purchase price is not in any of the paper work,making the final price we paid, the equity value of this contract ,which is fraudulent .

The other 3rd party that is involved is a co. called ETI -Equity transfers INt. They are supposedly transferring the resorts over to VG and out of our names ,and with one thing comes another,it's like dominoes ,you are stuck doing it all or nothing will work like they planned .Thats where Vancom Stategies comes in ,and they are supposed to help you pay for this with the rentals. Oh the head aches are only beginning !! They are so slick in the sales presentation,we didn't catch the other thing which is of great importance in any T.S contract,and that is we were introduced to 4 winter weeks and then he added 1 summer week for what ever reason,well actually I know now that it was to trick us into not thinking of the change he made , to all 5 weeks into summer with the option of 4 of the summer weeks anytime ! He was talking about 'anytime ' ,so we assumed that was the 4 winter weeks.They know exactly how to say everything to get you to think you have one thing but then they change it somehow to be another. Sad, very sad, these guys will do anything ,say anything to keep you interested,and confused,and they don't care. We also were told that Vancom would rent our weeks and pay us $2500 for the 1st. summer week to help pay for this all and subsequently for the next 5 yrs. when then the Resort could offer to buy it back.It sounds ridiculously too good to be true,but I guess when you are sitting in on a conversation like this it all sounds great and you find yourself trusting them too much. I don't know how they sleep at night ? I am thinking of hiring a Mexican Attorney and see what can be done. So far we have paid a down payment, {$11,000}and the balance is on finance starting in May,which gives me some time to investigate. Sorry to hear about your loss too. I 'll let you know what i come up with. AM

I would hire a Mexican Attorney immediately. If you read the above postings, pay close attention to how many outside related organizations that Vallarta Gardens is linked to......actually their side related companies have changed several times...i.e. the ones who do different things related things for VG. VG also processes sales differently with different clients - i.e. above as stated by one customer....."They purchased 3 of my 5 weeks for the next five years UPFRONT, and I only had to pay the remainder for the unit"....They sure didn't purchase any of my weeks even though the sales pitch implied they would. What did happen was that VanCom contacted me weeks later (they were calling from Texas) and informed me that for Approx $1400 (this payment of fees would be good for 10 years) Van Com would 'rent out' my VG Timeshare...thereby helping me to use the funds obtained through the rentals for payment of the VG time share. Only thing, they couldn't actually promise me they could unconditionally rent my unit . Why would anyone pay upfront $1400 to a company who promised to rent out a VG timeshare ...if they could?

Trade in of previously owned timeshare ---- I have just started receiving within the last two weeks calls from a company in Texas that claims to be the company that is to handle the transfer of a time share I have owned for several years. This supposedly was to be exchanged for monetary value on down payment for VG timeshares (at the time of purchase). Since October 2012, this was ignored. I have since paid maintenance fees and property taxes on my previously purchased and owned timeshare. So, I have additional funds invested in the old ownership. I have decided that since the trade-in was not documented in the original VG contract; since I have dealt with this old established company for over ten years; since Orlando Ramirez refused to acknowledge the trade-in was supposed to have cancelled out a percentage of my fees for VG; since the old company at least has several 800 numbers I can call anytime I have questions to be answered.........I have decided I had rather have the 'tried and true' than 'pie in the sky'.

At some time in the (possibly near) future, what is currently being parlayed by the VG sales staff into sales tactics is going to backfire. I would doubt any of us could even call the paper the VG contract was printed on ours at that time.

VG will once again go into bankruptcy and we all will be out of any investment we have made. Good luck to all of us.

Alice, I too fell scam to Vallarta Gardens with Cynthia Gonzalez and Joe Potter at the helm. I was in a similar situation having paid the down payment, but not yet paid the balance and just outside of the rescission period. I hired Mexican Timeshare Solutions and they recouped most of my down payment and cancelled the contract with the resort. I suggest you contact them and see what they can do for you.