The Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas

Secondary market vs purchase from developer

I recently went thru the sales presentation for the Westin Villas North due to open this summer. It seems that the value is mostly in the extra points that come with the purchase (80,000/yr). What are the advantages of purchasing from the developer other than paying a premium for the points as compared to buying on the secondary market at a reduced price without the points? Are the points really worth the extra $35,000 to $40,000? The resale value of timeshares seems to depreciate over time like a vehicle does instead of appreciating like a real estate should. Based on many reviews, it doesn't really seem like having title to the real estate makes a difference in the property valuation. Having said that, it seems that by the time interest is paid on the mortgage and maintenance fees are paid, someone could enjoy a very luxurious vacation without having to pay for it in advance (down payment). Am I missing something here? It would be interesting to get replies from owner having bought from developer and those who purchased on secondary market. Thank you.

Kelly A.

Great Question. We sat through the sales pitch, and became "SPG Explorers", paying about $3000 to get 50K points, and a return week (just have to sit through another presentation.) I really like the points, and the fact that we can convert the timeshare to points to use at other facilities around the world. I understand that you can't do that with a re-sale, however your point about the extra cost is well taken - Can't wait to hear others experiences...

Dan D.

Not only the points are great for travel/car rental or short trip hotels, what you may end up with if you decide to become an owner thru Westin, is the amount of your Explorer package applied to the sale as a down payment along with the 50k starpoints for returning and maybe another bonus # (30-50k) of starpoints for buying . You''ll learn this at your Follow-up presentation. Not bad for young families / couples looking at going to Disney /Golfing excursions in the future or other areas than just Maui.

Fraser S.

kellya71 wrote:
I recently went thru the sales presentation for the Westin Villas North due to open this summer. It seems that the value is mostly in the extra points that come with the purchase (80,000/yr). What are the advantages of purchasing from the developer other than paying a premium for the points as compared to buying on the secondary market at a reduced price without the points? Are the points really worth the extra $35,000 to $40,000? The resale value of timeshares seems to depreciate over time like a vehicle does instead of appreciating like a real estate should. Based on many reviews, it doesn't really seem like having title to the real estate makes a difference in the property valuation. Having said that, it seems that by the time interest is paid on the mortgage and maintenance fees are paid, someone could enjoy a very luxurious vacation without having to pay for it in advance (down payment). Am I missing something here? It would be interesting to get replies from owner having bought from developer and those who purchased on secondary market. Thank you.

Dear Kelly: To the contrary in many regards, the value of the weekly timeshares appreciates. I have been offered considerably morethan what I paid for both my Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Villas weeks and my Westin St. John weeks. I think you need to pay attention to the type of property you buy (deeded and fixed vs. floating), the week you purchase, and most importantly, the resort you select. The Starpoints can be rip-roaringly valuable, if you know how to play the game. My family of 4 has used them exlclusively for airfare over the last six years, but recently, in an effort to turn profitable, the airlines have all but eliminated flights accepting air miles or they have doubled and tripled the amount of miles required for the flights. That makes your points for airfare almost useless, as a simple flight now turns into a questionable value at a 250,000 point/mile echange.

Jesse B.

I own a Starwood property (not Hawaii) that I bought via Ebay for $1400 (escrow included) for 1 premium bedroom, every other year. It came with no StarOption or StarPoint.

While I was there for vacation last month, they want to upgrade my ownership. They offer another 1 premium bedroom, EOY usage for $11,000; it comes with 81,000 staroptions and 30,000 StarPoints. If I sign up with AMEX, I would get another 12,00 StarPoints.

If you enjoy returning to the same resort each time, then you are better off buying it on Ebay. If you want to travel the world or to other SVN resorts, then I do see the value of paying $11,000. It all depends on the kind of traveler you are.

Jeff H.

I also bought a resale on E-bay. I paid about $6,700 for a two bedroom lock-off which came with 81,000 star options. StarPoints do not transfer with resales. My timeshare is a Mandatory Property which allows you to trade with other Starwood properties.

Janice S.

janices62 wrote:
I also bought a resale on E-bay. I paid about $6,700 for a two bedroom lock-off which came with 81,000 star options. StarPoints do not transfer with resales. My timeshare is a Mandatory Property which allows you to trade with other Starwood properties.

Do you have to trade directly with the property owner because I have never heard of a Mandatory Property? Starwood has also advised that resales are not part of their network so therefore they do not allow you to trade inside their network. What is a Mandatory Property and why would Starwood treat this different in the resale market and allow you to trade in their network?

Adam K.

We bought at Sheraton Vistina Villages in Orlando in July 2006, did the timeshare presentation and understood how the system works. When we returned home, my sister and I both cancelled our units and bought resales on E-bay. She bought a two bedroom during prime season, I bought a two bedroom lockoff during high season, both came with 81,000 staroptions. The Villages (not the resort) is a Mandatory property and you are allowed to trade inside the network. You will also belong to II but you cannot convert your week to starpoints. This year we traded our unit for Harborside in Atlantis. We have school aged children and could only go in June or July. We had to call daily until a unit became available and we had to settle for a one bedroom deluxe and a one bedroom premium eventhough we had enough staroptions for a two bedroom unit. If you are more flexible with your vacation time, it will be easier for you. I would not want less than 81,000 staroptions. My seller on E-bay was "sellingshares (294*). It was a "Donate For A Cause" unit, very reasonable for what I purchased. These units become available on occasion. You can even contact the seller (Matt) by e-mail at sellingshares@gmail.com to see whats available. There is a two-bedroom available presently on e-bay which comes with 69,000 staroptions, but I think it should be 67,100 staroptions instead. Only buy from a "Mandatory Property" unless you want to return to your home property every year.

Janice S.

janices62 wrote:
We bought at Sheraton Vistina Villages in Orlando in July 2006, did the timeshare presentation and understood how the system works. When we returned home, my sister and I both cancelled our units and bought resales on E-bay. She bought a two bedroom during prime season, I bought a two bedroom lockoff during high season, both came with 81,000 staroptions. The Villages (not the resort) is a Mandatory property and you are allowed to trade inside the network. You will also belong to II but you cannot convert your week to starpoints. This year we traded our unit for Harborside in Atlantis. We have school aged children and could only go in June or July. We had to call daily until a unit became available and we had to settle for a one bedroom deluxe and a one bedroom premium eventhough we had enough staroptions for a two bedroom unit. If you are more flexible with your vacation time, it will be easier for you. I would not want less than 81,000 staroptions. My seller on E-bay was "sellingshares (294*). It was a "Donate For A Cause" unit, very reasonable for what I purchased. These units become available on occasion. You can even contact the seller (Matt) by e-mail at sellingshares@gmail.com to see whats available. There is a two-bedroom available presently on e-bay which comes with 69,000 staroptions, but I think it should be 67,100 staroptions instead. Only buy from a "Mandatory Property" unless you want to return to your home property every year.

Is the Sheraton Vistana Villages the only "Mandatory Property" through the Starwood Network?

Adam K.

Not sure which properties are Mandatory, was told that the Sheraton Vistina Resort was not a mandatory property (although I'm not sure about the Lakes and Cascades sections). You could check with Starwood, and you cannot get this information, I would be glad to check for you if you have a particular resort in mind.

Janice S.

adampkelly wrote:
Is the Sheraton Vistana Villages the only "Mandatory Property" through the Starwood Network?

Here are the SVN Mandatory resorts: Harborside Resort, Vistana Villages, Westin St. John, Westin Kaanapali, and Westin Kierland.

Resorts that are SVN Mandatory are more expensive bz the StarOptions are transferable, but you can't convert your StarOptions into StarPoints. You also need to pay $99/yr for SVN membership fee for SVN Mandatory resorts. If you do trade, there is a $135 (domestic) fee on top. If you do bank your StarOptions with Interval International, there is a fee too. I look at both initial $$ and annual $$. Resort HOA fee varies quite a bit. You have to know what kind of traveler you are, and optimize based on your needs. There is no right or wrong answer.

Personally, I bought a resort that I would return every 2 years. Sheraton Desert Oasis was my first timeshare, I didn't want to pay too much for it; $1400 via Ebay. For my 1 premium bedroom (1200sqft), I pay $260/yr for 1 week (property tax & maint fee) EOY. We just got back last month, and we enjoyed our stay. It's a nice resort for us.

Sheraton Desert Oasis has probably the lowest HOA fee within Starwood fleet. It's in the desert. No tornado, no storms, no tropical garden, no overwhelming lobby and common place. Cacti and desert trees don't need much care. There aren't any lawn. I would guess the HOA would remain low, even in the long run.

Jeff H.

Last edited by jeffw92 on Mar 26, 2007 08:22 AM

You are right, cannot covert StarOptions to StarPoints with resales. We do pay $99/yr for SVN membership.

You can bank with Interval International and you pay a fee when you trade.

There are no additional fees when you bank within the Starwood system, we traded our Sheraton Vistina Villages in Orlando for Harborside this year - no extra charges.

Janice S.

Last edited by janices62 on Mar 26, 2007 08:41 PM

I bought directly from Westin. But honestly, I think you would be better off buying off Red Week. The ability to convert to Westin StarPoints is really outweighted by the savings of purchasing on the secondary market.

Moreover, you are able to to still trade between the Westin Vacation Ownership resorts and through Interval International.

Jon R.

jonr5 wrote:
I bought directly from Westin. But honestly, I think you would be better off buying off Red Week. The ability to convert to Westin StarPoints is really outweighted by the savings of purchasing on the secondary market.
Moreover, you are able to to still trade between the Westin Vacation Ownership resorts and through Interval International.

I got couple questions. What's the conversion rate from StarOptions to StarPoints? 1 to 1 or something else? Is there a fee for the conversion? If yes, how much? Is that the only difference of buying from Redweek.com/Ebay.com versus buying from Westin? Assuming we are talking about a SVN Mandatory resort.

Jeff H.

I just spoke with Starwood. You cannot convert StarOptions to StarPoints when you buy a resale. There is no fee to convert StarOptions other than the $99.00 yearly membership fee. You pay this membership fee even if you own a resale. The conversion rate is different for each resort. Mandatory or voluntary property, where you own, what type of unit you own, what season you own. Example: I own a two bedroom lockoff at Sheraton Vistina Villages, a mandatory property, during low season (resale), 81,000 staroptions. If I were able to convert, for the smaller unit 37,000 staroptions=15,000 starpoints; for the larger unit 44,000 staroptions=18,000 starpoints. Less than half and the nicer category 4 hotels require 10,000 starpoints for one free night. Hope this helps.

Janice S.

janices62 wrote:
I just spoke with Starwood. You cannot convert StarOptions to StarPoints when you buy a resale. There is no fee to convert StarOptions other than the $99.00 yearly membership fee. You pay this membership fee even if you own a resale. The conversion rate is different for each resort. Mandatory or voluntary property, where you own, what type of unit you own, what season you own. Example: I own a two bedroom lockoff at Sheraton Vistina Villages, a mandatory property, during low season (resale), 81,000 staroptions. If I were able to convert, for the smaller unit 37,000 staroptions=15,000 starpoints; for the larger unit 44,000 staroptions=18,000 starpoints. Less than half and the nicer category 4 hotels require 10,000 starpoints for one free night. Hope this helps.

In my opinion, I think that proves the converting to Star Points is worthless when compared to trading within the Starwood network or banking within Interval. Simply put - staying 7 days at a cat 4 hotel would be 70,000 points - you'd have to have convert the entire unit 2.5 times! The only value I see is if you've had your unit for a while and really want to go to an area where Starwood or II does not have a vacation property. But trading 2+ weeks for 1 is pretty steep.

Starwood would make this aout of this world if the equated the points to the average similar hotel rate. e.g trading out a whole 2 BR unit got you 70,000 points.

Jon R.

jonr5 wrote:
In my opinion, I think that proves the converting to Star Points is worthless when compared to trading within the Starwood network or banking within Interval. Simply put - staying 7 days at a cat 4 hotel would be 70,000 points - you'd have to have convert the entire unit 2.5 times! The only value I see is if you've had your unit for a while and really want to go to an area where Starwood or II does not have a vacation property. But trading 2+ weeks for 1 is pretty steep.
Starwood would make this aout of this world if the equated the points to the average similar hotel rate. e.g trading out a whole 2 BR unit got you 70,000 points.

Thanks for all the input. I will definitely consider redweek or Ebay when I shop for a SVN mandatory resort couple years from now, unless Starwood make me an offer that I couldn't refuse.

Jeff H.

Before buying, check out maintenance fees, they can be quite high. Go to Harborside Atlantis/Bahamas "discuss". Their maintenance fees are very high and owners are not very happy.

Janice S.

janices62 wrote:
Before buying, check out maintenance fees, they can be quite high. Go to Harborside Atlantis/Bahamas "discuss". Their maintenance fees are very high and owners are not very happy.

Westin Kaanaapli are are about 900 per year on an E0Y and 1800 per year on an Annual. This is why I suggest folks consider buying an EOY 2 BR because you can lock-off your unit and bank one on II for the next year. This gives you similer but not hte same functionality as an annual. Alternatively, you can lock-off every year and rent your studio for about 1800 for the week which pays off your dues. I recently posted a week on Redweek and rented it within a month.

Jon R.

kelly, you are right. The only difference is the upfront bonus points AND the fact that realse buyers will not be allowed to convert SVO points into Starwood SPG hotel/resort points. Basically buying a resell restricts you to staying at the 17 Villa SVO resorts, your annual points can only be spent at the other 16 resorts. In our case, we have used our 81k (KOR) 1-1Bdrm points for a 2Bdrm in Atlantis, not bad.

Joel H.

Last edited by marty8084 on Aug 15, 2007 08:07 PM