Marriott Going to a Point System

Apparently, in June of this year Marriott is ending their formal relationship with Interval International and is going to a point system for all the timeshares. While existing owners are likely to have the option of retaining their week usage at/deposit of their home resort as in the past, essentially a point value will be assigned to your ownership week(s). My question is, does anyone have experience with these points systems (such as are used by Hilton, Westin, and others), and will this be good or bad for Marriott owners? Thanks.

This is true - not a rumor. Marriott is trying to keep this hush-hush for now until they can train their sales people on how to sell timeshare points instead of deeded weeks. All the sales folks will be offline for a week in June for the training. Expect lots of communication (spin) to be coming from Marriott in the next few months. We will have to wait for more details from Marriott to learn how/if the timeshare points system will mesh with Marriott Reward Points. Existing owners will be offered the opportunity to convert their deeded weeks to the timeshare points system - for a hefty charge. I haven't spoken with anyone who thinks this conversion is a good deal for existing deeded-week owners. Going forward, all new sales will be for timeshare points - not deeded weeks. The only way to buy deeded weeks will be on the resale market (but hey - there are lots of resales available). By selling timeshare points rather than deeded weeks, Marriott will be able to move a lot of off-season inventory that was previously classified as hard-to-sell. But the timeshare points system will also create more competition when trying to reserve your desired week during peak times.

Marriott claims several benefits of the timeshare points system. Using timeshare points will allow people to reserve any timeshare resort they want within the Marriott system. But locations like Hawaii will obviously require more points than Palm Springs or Orlando for instance. You will not be forced to use a full week all at once - reserve as many days as you have points. Weekend days will require more points than weekdays. The number of required points may also vary by season (at many resorts there are seasons - platinum/gold/silver/bronze/lead, etc).

Without Interval International, trading your week will become very difficult (if not impossible) for those owners not on the timeshare points system. Use it or lose it, baby! Deeded-week owners who do not convert to the timeshare points system will be left with fewer options on how to use their week: 1) Use week at home resort. 2) Rent out week through Marriott or eBay/craigslist/RedWeek. 3) Cash-in week for Marriott Reward Points (only if you originally purchased from Marriott).

By implementing a points system, Marriott (not the free market) will become the arbiter of what is considered a fair trade. Marriott claims this will keep the "riff-raff" bargain traders out of their resorts (perhaps that point is true). By eliminating the bargain traders coming in from Interval International and by allowing partial-week usage, it should increase vacancies at the resorts - and Marriott will then be able to rent out those vacant nights for profit. At the end of the day, there is more money in this for Marriott or else they wouldn't be making the change.

I have serious concerns. Because of no full kitchen, don't expect that your Maui Ocean Club week will be assigned an equivalent number of timeshare points as the Marriott Ko Olina for example. Previously we have had an easy time trading our Maui week for Ko Olina (so I guess we are classified as "bargain traders"). But under the new timeshare points system, using a full week of timeshare points from Maui Ocean Club will likely only get you a partial week at Ko Olina (and then of course Marriott will be happy to sell you more timeshare points or rent you more nights for cash$). Will existing deeded-week owners will be given priority in reserving their desired week at their home resort before the timeshare points owners from other resorts swoop-in to claim the best weeks? Does the concept of a "home resort" even apply when you are a just buying a bucket of points? And what security exists when you don't own a deeded week? Owning just a bucket of points seems pretty vulnerable if Marriott suddenly decides to change the rules (again). Without deeded-week owners, will Marriott control all decisions at the resorts instead of an elected Board of Directors?

This timeshare points system is about two things: 1) Marriott retaining control of the resorts. 2) Marriott increasing its opportunities for revenue.

First and foremost, Marriott is looking out for Marriott - so beware, and do you homework on this timeshare points system.

Gblotter: Do you work for Marriott? If not, where do you get your info on this point system topic?

No - I do not work for Marriott. My information on this topic comes from employees of MVCI, and I trust that it is reliable/accurate. Marriott has been working on this timeshare points deployment for 1-2 years now. They had hoped to roll this out even earlier. But as you can imagine, there are many sensitive details associated with assigning relative points to the various Marriott timeshare properties.

Personally I think it is a big mistake and a betrayal of trust to the current owners. I have avoided other points-based timeshare programs precisely because I am uncomfortable with the concept. Too many opportunities for Marriott to game the system with a points-based model. But Marriott thinks there is more money to be made by going this route. Like I said, Marriott is looking out for Marriott here, so be informed.

After the details are revealed by Marriott, we'll see how close my insider-information is to actual reality. I'm sure the Marriott spin machine will be working overtime to sell us on the merits of this new timeshare points system (just like they tried to assure us that adding two new towers to Maui Ocean Club would not result in overcrowding at the central pool - yeah, right.)

Thanks for the info....I sincerely hope your sources were wrong, but I doubt that they were. Puts us owners, not only at MMOC but at LGC as well, in quite a spot. We're going to be at MMOC starting June 13 - we'll see how our salesman plays this out & let you know.

I would like to be optimistic that Marriott could somehow go to a point system and do it right, but there is very little likelihood this can be done in such a way that owners will benefit. The main problem is in the way points are arbitrarily assigned. There are so many variables as to why a particular unit should or should not be assigned a given point value, that it will be impossible to equitably assign the points.

For example, everyone knows that the Maui Marriott is one the most desirable properties in the world among timeshares. As a result, if someone owns and locks off a two bedroom unit, both sides individually are in great demand, both for trade purposes and as a rental. However, once the new Marriott points are assigned, it is highly unlikely that the points will come anywhere close to the value of each sides separately. While, owners will still have the option to use the property themselves, the problem will occur in those years when an owner will want to trade.

I have gone to Westin and Hilton sales presentations and have not purchased specifically because both use a point system, which by its nature is inherently flawed. Moreover, I have spoken to owners of these "point system" timeshares and most people are dissatisfied once they have been involved for awhile. Yes, the "spin" by the salespeople is that a point system provides more flexible usage options (i.e., less than seven day stays, midweek stays, greater resort usage options). The reality, however, is that (like the airline programs) the points can and often are devalued over time (i.e., the same number of points can be used for less). Moreover, as indicated above, the assignment of points to a particular property is very difficult and full of inequities.

I have owned Marriott timeshares for nearly 20 years. I own 5 different locations and have been greatly pleased with virtually everything Marriott has done over the years. Moreover, I have recommended Marriott to many friends who have purchased. However, I believe this points system has very little chance of being of benefit to owners. I AM VERY UPSET BY THIS AND THINK MARRIOTT TIMESHARE OWNERS SHOULD OPPOSE THIS, EVEN IF LITIGATION IS NECESSARY.

I share your disappointment that Marriott is changing the rules like this. The Marriott brand has had a reputation of trust and integrity that owners rely on (even if it is not spelled out in any contract). If I wanted membership in a points-based timeshare system, I would have gone that direction from the start (there is certainly no lack of those programs to choose from already). I'm sure that Marriott's lawyers have been hard at work structuring this new points system to shield themselves against litigation from existing owners. Very sad - perhaps Marriott has forgotten that a good reputation takes years to build and minutes to lose.

How can they do this? When we bought our first timeshare in Palm Desert from Marroitt they sold us with "buy the low season and it still trades out RED". Which is how we first came to Maui Ocean Club and loved it and bought there also, we like to trade our Palm Desert for a second week in Hi. Sounds like now we won't be able to. I really don't know how they can change it if they sold it to us one way and now its another!

I am sure Marriott's response will be that owners will have the option to stay on a weekly (rather than a points) program, and therefore can continue to do trades as always. The problem is that if a significant number of owners are convinced (by Marriott) to convert to a points system, the likelihood of "traditional" trades will diminish greatly, since Interval International will get fewer Marriott deposits. Plus, in order to get the trade revenues, Marriott will, in all likelihood, handle all trades internally (rather than using Interval International), thus these trades will be "points system" oriented.

thomasn15 has it right. Another point to consider: In addition to Interval International receiving fewer trading opportunities from Marriott owners, Interval International will now receive zero weeks from MVCI itself (all the unsold inventory and owner weeks cashed-in for Marriott Reward Points). This will have the biggest impact on the ability to trade.

Like I said before, Marriott is looking out for Marriott here. This new points system will be about Marriott retaining control and Marriott increasing its revenue opportunities. You should not expect that existing owner satisfaction will be a high priority for this initiative.

Is there anything we can do to stop Marriott from making this huge mistake and injustice to owners? Although I have never been one to agree with all the lawsuits in our country, I would not rule out a class action suit. Although Marriott has no doubt had their many attorneys on this for a couple years, the many resort by resort inequities that will arise will be certainly worth litigating.

I just read an article in Timesharing Today magazine about the points based system through RCI, Wyndam, and other. These sound absolutely dreadful and confirm my worst fears. In essence, while we owners that have lockouts have been able to lockoff and trade for two weeks at excellent resorts in the past, we will not even be able to trade for one week at some resorts (and likely will have to save two years of points from our units to get one week of usage). If we owners had wanted points based timeshares, we would have purchased initially through one of the other companies, other than Marriott. Marriott going to a points based system is a direct violation of the entire premise upon which we purchased.

I would be very interested to read that article from Timesharing Today magazine. Can you provide a link? Or perhaps repost the text from the article here?

With the new points system, I'm sure you will still be able to find generous trades for your lockoffs through Interval International - just not at other Marriott properties. It is precisely the "bargain trades" that Marriott is trying to eliminate here, providing themselves with another revenue opportunity in the process.

There are many uncertainties that won't be resolved until MVCI announces the details of the new points system. But one certainty is that Marriott's lawyers will have them covered against possible lawsuits.

L do not have an electronic version of the article, but it is found in the May/June 2010 Issue (i.e., Issue 111) of Timesharing Today magazine on page 26. The magazine website is: www.tstoday.com

Right on schedule, Marriott sent out information today about their new points program. I really hope that existing owners will shun this. If a majority of existing owners opt to convert their deeded weeks, then Marriott will take control of the board of directors and owners will lose any control over decision-making. It seems that all new MVCI sales will be for points - not deeded weeks (effective June 20, 2010). It is interesting that Marriott's clever language doesn't inform you that you will pay MVCI thousands of dollars for the "privilege" of giving up your deeded week. The former Embassy Suites Vacation Club did a similar conversion to a points system, and the resulting horror stories are endless - including a number of nasty lawsuits.

Text from Marriott appears below ...

================

Introducing the next evolution in vacationing - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program - a new usage option that is a flexible, easy-to-use, and points-based approach to vacationing.

And because it is an option, once you enroll, each year you can choose to use your ownership as you have in the past or elect to receive Vacation Club Points.

Enroll in the Exchange Program and Enjoy These New Benefits: Enhanced flexibility at Marriott Vacation Club resorts - check in any day of the week, during any season, in any accommodation size, for as long as you want.* More vacation choices like access to the Explorer Collection for adventure travel, cruises, safaris & guided tours to global landmarks, and urban hotel experience packages.** A simplified fee structure, so you don't have to pay separate fees such as Interval International membership or for exchanges to other Marriott Vacation Club resorts.***

Special Introductory Enrollment Offer

Enroll for a one-time, low introductory enrollment fee structure, starting at $595 and if you enroll by December 31, 2010, you will receive a bonus of 800 Vacation Club PlusPoints - good for two to five additional nights at any Marriott Vacation Club resort depending on the resort, room type and season.

Learn More During Your Upcoming Stay

You are encouraged to meet with a Sales Executive during your upcoming stay. You will be contacted prior to your arrival to schedule a time that works for you.

You can also call 866-363-8214 to speak with a Sales Executive, 1-800-845-4226 to speak with Owner Services, or visit My-VacationClub.com for more details or to enroll online.

While I understand the concerns, the most important defense, at least initially, is to not relinquish your weeks into the new system. The cost alone to transfer should deter some folks. The marginal users, who based on the amount of resales is high, should also be deter from a nuisance factor alone. If current owners stay with II that is the best outcome for the time being.

I'm glad I found out about this now, because I was going to purchase another Marriott property-- the Waiohai on Kauai. Right now I own Marriott Maui Beach Club, and I also own Diamond Vacation Resorts Kaanapali Beach Club. DVR went to points too, and I actually bought the Marriott instead of another DVR precisely because I didn't (and still don't) want a points-based system. They've certainly lost my sale-- and I think they are going to cause a tremendous devaluation in their properties because of this.

It seems to me, then, that it would be important to somehow get the information everyone has supplied here distributed among current Marriott owners. I'm not sure how it would be possible to do that outside of a class action suit wherein Marriott would have to supply the owners list. Any suggestions?

After having met with a sales rep this last week, Marriott is trying to 'legitimize' any units that were not purchased thru them, for a fee plus they will 'sell' you points on the units that you did buy from Marriott....for a 2 BR mountain/garden annual unit in the older unit, you will get 4725 points but if you want to use your points to trade into the same unit, it will cost you around 5300 points. To convert our 2 non-Marriott purchases to the point system it would have cost $1995---something we decided was not for us. Hopefully if enough owners reject the point idea, they'll either drop the idea or re-vamp it.

We can maintain our Interval International affliation and continue to use their services....if you convert to the point system, Marriott will pay the fees to II for you.

As far as them paying the II fees for you if you join their points system, I was told by a superviser over the phone at MVC that they do not. If you want to keep your II you have to pay it seperate, they are trying to get you out of II and only trade thru their points system. I called to get info and was not happy, asked to speak with some one to voice my complaint. They just put me thru to a superviser that went on and on about the benifits ( ya for MVC, not us!)

There is a wealth of information here as well on the new Marriott points system. Good resource to educate yourself and others.

see http://tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29

does anybody know of a class action suit against Marriott, for the new points program?